70: The Glass Ceiling Cost Her More Than a Promotion | Women and Work

She spent years climbing the corporate ladder—earning promotions, leading teams, and sacrificing precious time with her family. But one honest conversation with her boss changed everything. She was told that no matter how hard she worked, she'd never be welcomed into the company's inner circle simply because she was a woman.

That realization became the catalyst for building something of her own.

In this episode of Women and Work, Diane Moca sits down with Jennifer Sutton, Founder of Bright Marketing, Orange Whip, and the Hello Chaos podcast, to discuss breaking through the glass ceiling, leaving corporate America, building businesses from the ground up, and advocating for women entrepreneurs.

Topics discussed:
• Breaking through the glass ceiling
• The hidden cost of chasing the C-suite
• Leaving corporate to start a business
• Women in entrepreneurship and venture funding
• Balancing ambition with family
• Building businesses with purpose

Have you ever realized the career you were chasing wasn't going to give you what you truly wanted?

Struggling to find the right child care? Get a video interview of your ideal nanny at https://www.momsub.com/child-care-options

#WomenAndWork #WomenInBusiness #Leadership #Entrepreneurship #WorkingMoms

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I was chasing, I guess, the circle, right? And my team was uh going, Jonnifer, every time you get promoted, have you not noticed that they create a whole new circle and group for the men, leaders? And it's like you're chasing a circle you're never gonna get in. They don't want you in there. So I had like a very direct conversation with my boss at the time, and I said, What is my future? What, you know, where am I going? Can I like I am running circles around the other men? How do I? And he was just like, you know, I'm gonna be honest with you. And he was very candid. We, you know, I had no issues. Um, I loved the company, I loved my job. And he was like, This is just a company that just does not believe that that that next level, that female should be in that circle.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Welcome to Women and Work, the show where we take an inside look at how women are overcoming our own unique challenges as we grow our careers or build a business while nurturing relationships and family. I'm Diane Mocha, founder and CEO of MomSub, the childcare app that connects you to a substitute mom. And I want you to know that work can fit your life. Each week we meet a woman who has done that. And today I'm with Jennifer Sutton. She is the founder of two companies and a podcast. Orange Whip is a platform featuring content, tools, and community for founders. Bright Marketing is a growth agency that hones in on positioning to help builders scale. And Hello Chaos shares founder stories through a podcast that has reached 207 episodes. And here at Women in Work, where we've produced about 70 episodes so far, we know that's quite a feat. All right. Thanks for being here, Jennifer.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Well, thank you, Diana, for inviting me. And um, I love talking with other women female founders and uh women and uh especially working moms.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Yes, yes, we need to stick together and collaborate. And I thank you for having me on the Hello Chaos podcast. That episode will be coming out in October 2026, I or sometime in the fall. And I know that you worked in advertising, media, and marketing for almost 20 years before you ventured out on your own and started bright marketing about 12 years ago. And so I would imagine during that time when you were in corporate, you experienced possibly the glass ceiling, you know, possibly, you know, um marketplaces and workplaces where it was uh difficult to be a woman, even in an area like marketing and media where there are a lot of women in certain roles, but maybe not necessarily at the top. And then you moved into the startup world, which is dominated by men. So I always start out by asking what you think has been the biggest challenge in your career, specifically because you are a woman.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Wow, that's a that's a great question. Um well one, I you know, when I ventured and and start did my startup in 2013, and it was because I not just hit the glass ceiling, the glass ceiling came down on me. Of I was uh was in a in a larger agency. And like you said, in the agency world and the industry, um, there are a lot of females, a lot of females, but predominantly all the agency owners and especially the big companies are run. The leadership teams are all men. They're run by, you know, they're owned by men. Um, and that's you know, you just kind of it's that madmen air. I mean, it's never uh, you know, especially some of the older uh agencies that have been around for a long time still feel that way. Um, but uh yeah, I was, you know, first female manager, first female director, first female executive director, and and I was chasing, I guess, the circle, right? And my team was uh going, Jonnifer, every time you get promoted, have you not noticed that they create a whole new circle and group for the men, leaders? And it's like you're chasing a circle you're never gonna get in. They don't want you in there. So I had like a very direct conversation with my boss at the time, and I said, What is my future? What, you know, where am I going? Can I like I am running circles around the other men? How do I? And he was just like, I, you know, I'm gonna be honest with you. And he was very candid. We we, you know, I had no issues. Um, I loved the company, I love my job. And he was like, This is just a company that just does not believe that that that next level, that female should be in that circle. It means something that's it's just, you know, this is a uh privately held, you know, very, I would say southern traditional, um uh, you know, evangelical mindset of there there's just certain things that women should not be in charge of. Um, and that was kind of like, whoa, so no matter what I do here, this is like I'm I'm I'm title stuck. Um, you know, there's no growth for you. And and it's you know, you just say when when you kind of get that reality, all of a sudden your mindset starts opening, looking for, you know, and opportunities were coming to me throughout like just weeks, days, weeks, months later. And then I started the company um bright later that year. And and it's been wonderful, uh, ch very much challenging. Uh and I think, you know, to answer your question of what's been the biggest challenge as a woman one when I did start it, and it was with the mindset of I want to create something that's bigger than me. Um, I don't want to just put my name on the because that's kind of the the tradition of you know, sudden strategies or sudden marketing, you know, everyone uses their last name for for their business. And I was like, I don't want that. I I want it to be, you know, bigger. Um, I'm I'm building a brand. Um, um, I want to create a business for scale. Um and not until I bought a building a year and a half later um I had people coming out of the way like, oh, so like you're really serious about this business. I just thought you were just another, you know, mom that just wanted to get some gigs. And you know, you know, you you created you you create a business to find jobs. And and you're like, you're actually, you know, doing something that's bigger. But it took a year like to wake up people who had known me. These were executives that I worked with at large companies, sat in their boardrooms, and it was that was that moment. And it didn't even dawn on me of like, oh, this is why they're not giving me their business. You know, it was that I and I I kind of had framed it of I gotta build it. Uh, you know, they can't go to their board and go, I we can't go to a startup. But it's interesting, I other men that started their, you know, and I like I said, I came from agency, like two decades of working in really, you know, some large agencies working on some of the you know top brands in the in the country, if not the you know, global brands. But I was seeing, you know, agencies popping up and being started by an accountant, no agency experience whatsoever, just saw the opportunity, and uh those same kind of male executives were, oh, you're doing that, okay. You know, you know, yeah, I'll I'll I'll bring my business to you. And I and I'm just that's where it was like we are viewed very differently. It is and and we you know, through Orange Whip that we study entrepreneurial ecosystems across the country, you know, and we've um we uh have created kind of the the and map the ecosystem across South Carolina because that's where we are, um to study the gender biases that exist in um uh uh not just in startups but in scale-ups. The there is such a you know, just worlds apart, we're on different spectrums of how we're treated, um, how we're funded. Um it is, you know, you look at like the the the the funding scale, right? You look at all the venture capitalists, the PE money, VC money, um, all of that through in the United States. Um what is it like 90% goes to four states? Do you know what states they are? California, California's one.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

New York.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

New York's no Texas, Texas is the third.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Maybe Illinois, where I'm based, Chicago.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

No, no, um, it goes, it's New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, California, and then Texas. That's 90 some percent. Actually, if you even add on Texas, it might be like 95%. That means all other cities, all other states are fighting for that five or ten percent, right? So South Carolina's like, you know, nothing.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

But Chicago's the third largest city in the country. I know. And the technical system here is, you know, does have um a bit, I wouldn't even call it a chip on their shoulder, but the we recognize that, you know, we're the you know, the forgotten stepchild, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

And you look at it's like, you know, Chicago might be putting in like three percent, you know, because they're and they're probably at where everything, you know, Indianapolis, like, you know, you look at like San Diego, uh, yeah, well, that's California, so that gets covered, but but you know, it just it's amazing when you look at like, okay, we're all competing. And then when you look at the framework by gender of, you know, and minorities, um you know, women, we were at the point we got the we got at the highest level that we had ever climbed at the end of what was it, 2023, 2024, we were at like 3.7 percent. Um, end of 2025, because of kind of that the the climate that we're in today, uh we're we're we're right at 2% of funding.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Because the money's all going to AI companies and women maybe starting companies that are solving problems other than you know, AI in the world, like childcare, you know, like like women's health, like you know, maturity leads.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

And it's and this is a or or you know, a product. We see like really good um CPG brands that are coming out. We see really good um like outdoor, you know, um utilitarian brands. It's just across all spectrum of all industries. And there's a lot of like med tech, fintech, you know, female founders. There's a lot of like life science, bio, you know, bioscience. It doesn't matter the category. And it's and we've always thought that even at like the 3.7%, we were at the highest. It didn't matter what's what what industry we've, you know, and it's and it's because women go in and and we are um no matter what room, we're asked a different set of questions. So uh the other thing is, you know, you got accelerators and incubators and pitch programs that are run by men. And so, and they're teaching everybody in the room, this is how you pitch, this is what you need to prepare for, this is, but it's designed with them in mind, right? But the women walk in the room and or uh, you know, a minority walks in the room, you know, if they're of in of any color, they're asked different sets of questions. Of, you know, men are uh it's almost like I've already given you the money. Now just tell me what you're you know, show me my return. Like give me the numbers. Well, women come in there and they and they're usually well more prepared. They know the numbers, they see the return because they are also aren't asking for money until they like they might be five years into the business or 10 years in the business versus a guy with a you know a post-it note and some numbers goes in and you know, he might be walking out of there with five million, a woman might be walking out of there with 25,000, but she is well more prepared. But her set of questions are you need to prove to me like that you're even worthy of our money.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

And they're asked more about you know, about what they've done and you know, why don't they have more revenue or traction? Whereas the men are asked where they're going, you know, where they're going. It's always like, Oh, tell me about your projections. And when women try to say that, they're like, Well, I'm I don't care about that.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Like, let's talk about are you worthy? Like, what have you done? Like, why should I even trust you? And and then here's the other incredible stats that you know, the women that do so that two to four percent that that do get funding, they show a higher ROI. We're talking about like a 30% better ROI on investment, more stable, more structured, and scalable than than male um founded businesses. So, you know, sometimes even more exponentially in certain categories. So the the the numbers, the data is there, but it's not translating into better outcomes.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

I love that you're you're fighting for this and tracking this. And I want to go back to that meeting that changed your life, that you didn't know going into that meeting was gonna change your life. Because it brought me back to a time where I was laid off from a job that I thought was gonna really launch my career to a different level. And I, you know, I saw some signs coming and the organization went through a lot of different changes, you know, it was a media startup. And, you know, but I was sitting there and I couldn't control myself and I was crying. And it was a female boss, and then and then the other woman that was in the room handing me tissues and you know, um, and I and I was kind of shell-shocked for a while, figuring out how to try to come back to that. And it ended up me moving back home, kind of changing the trajectory of what I was doing, and then I freelanced for a while and you know, and then I landed the actually the place where I stayed for 15 years and and really thrived. But I wonder in those hours and that time and the days and weeks ahead, was it emotional? Was it shocking? How did you react? Did you, you know, was this your direct boss? You know, did you, did your mind go to like, I'm gonna file something, I'm gonna write an email, I'm gonna tell everybody, or did you immediately go to, you know, I got to get out of there? What's my next step? Did you start scheming and planning and writing down your goals right away? Or did it take some time to seep in? There's other women that go through this, and I want to know, you know, what the steps were that happened for you.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Oh, I it wasn't really like uh in that moment. So that was in like early 2013. It was the start of the year. And it was more of the like a oh my gosh, I really I love this company. Like, uh, and I'm not gonna like all my hard work, no matter what I do, no matter how many more hours I put in, or how much more, you know, billable out, you know, um billables I come in, you know, that I bring in for for the company, it's not gonna matter. It won't matter. So, you know, then it becomes like that that uh you know, I'm a processor. So it's like, okay, well, I always say that, you know, it no matter where you are in your career, you're you know, if if you um love the company, love what you're doing, you have your I call your your windows and your doors closed to um opportunity because you're just like in, I'm in a rhythm, I'm doing it. And it was when I walked out of there, and again, it wasn't like a, oh man, well, I didn't get mad. It was just like, man, I'm there's like there's just no, there, there's no future here. Um and and then it was, I think it was like two days later, I had a uh an old client that had let, you know, she had gone on to be CEO of another company, wasn't gonna come back to the agency. They had their and she just was like sent me a text and she was like, Hey, I was just thinking about you. You know, I saw your last post on LinkedIn or something, and she was like, Have you ever ever considered going out on your own? I mean, it was just like, and those moments were happening. So that was like a couple of days later, and then I would go to um, because I was worked with a lot of media uh and publishers and um general managers of you know uh TV stations and radio stations and stuff. And so I would go to a lot, it was like a week later, I go to line, and someone, why are you not out on your own? And it was, but it and I'm just going, it's am I just now paying attention? But it was so you know odd that I just started picking up on the pattern. It was, you know, weekly, monthly, leading up to um my father-in-law passed away that summer. We were up in Indiana, um, taking care of of, you know, just being around family and and taking care of the the um funeral details and and doing that. And I had a couple of, again, past colleagues that were just like, hey, I, you know, I saw your post. Sorry about your father-in-law. Are you, you know, hey, can you take any side gigs? Can you would you ever what why have you not started your own agency and company? And and so then it was just like, you know, we're sitting up there and I, you know, started tech, you know, send a note back. I'm like, you know what? I don't even know what that looks like. I never thought about build starting a business. I never, I've never even thought about like it just doing somebody was like, well, just do a couple of gigs. Like you don't even have to start a business, just you know, do some gigs, take take a couple of uh uh jobs. Um and at the time, you have to re my kids were I have four kids, and my two youngest at that time were um like one and a half and three, and so and so, and my oldest was what 13? So it's like 13, 11, 3 and 1 or something, and I was working 90 hours a week, uh traveling about 10 days a month. Um, so I was missing a lot, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

And were you feeling guilt about that, or were you like this is my career and this is how it's gonna be?

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Yeah, it was more of I, you know, everybody kind of makes those sacrifices and choices, and and yeah, there is some of that that mom guilt, but you think there's a payoff.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Right. You were doing it because you really wanted to get accepted.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

And I think that was my wake-up call at the be you know, when all that happened at the beginning of the year, it was, oh my gosh, I'm sacrificing these. And it's like, yeah, they were promoting me, but it was promoting me and like making up levels and then creating new levels for the six men, six, seven men to like, you know, to keep chasing. So uh yeah, I was being promoted, but it was still, it was like it started become when it was obvious to 10 other like your department heads and your team, and they were like, oh yeah, oh crap, like that's you know, that's weird. Um, but that's where it was like that all like, huh, you know, oh all those sacrifices. Um, I, you know, maybe I'm not making the right choices. Maybe I didn't prioritize the way I needed to prioritize because there's no payoff. Um and you know, every because other women that were in the agency, you know, they were choosing not to, you know, when I look at like the my other, when, you know, I'm got I've gotten promoted beyond my peer, you know, the other women in my peer group, um, you know, they were like, ooh, I can't, I can't take that promotion. My husband won't allow it, which is just a awful, you know, phrasing of things, or you know, that role requires travel. You know, my husband won't allow that because the husband's the like I have to be the one in our in our family unit. They you know, everybody has those choices and how they create their their family, you know, structure.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Um, and that's totally different than saying I don't want to be away from my children that much, you know. I versus my husband won't allow it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Or we just don't have that. Well, like that is not like I would I have to be home every night to put the food on the table. I you know, I've got do these things, there's no way I'd be able to leave for three days for a business trip. You know, and that was a lot of the the women in my period. Not now I had a several women female clients who were COOs, CMOs, and CEOs who I, you know, we were on the same like level of uh mindset of of you, you know, you create the family structure, but it's not just like it's it's equal. It's not a um the in balance there. So you know, but it was that's what the don that was like, ugh, there's no payoff. And then, you know, when you go through and you're like, okay, well tell me what that looks like, you know, and I'm texting it back like, okay, you want me to come out? What does that look like? If you want to hire me, I have no idea how that looks like, what is that structure? It's just, it was so foreign to me. Um because I wasn't didn't come from an entrepreneurial family. You know, like I came from uh two parents who were workaholics, but they were in nonprofit and geriatric care. So there was yeah there was uh I came came from that space. So you know and then you get a couple of uh folks that come back and go I just need you for five hours um uh a week to help me prepare my board reports so that you know you look at my data help me prepare and tell my story to the board help me manage board communication another one was like can you help me you know manage this digital media buy and it's complex and stuff and you know it's probably gonna be like maybe 10 hours a week and I'm sitting there going and I'm like what what am I gonna get paid for that and it was both of them combined it was yeah 15 hours or something and it was like 70% of my salary that my current salary you gave them a price or they told you what they would pay they told me what they would pay.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Because they were used to paying agency rates and you were being paid as an employee.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Right. So I was like and and they are used to these were companies that were used to consultant rates. You know they were used to paying the McKenzie's they were you know the you know so it was like oh and it was high level you know more consulting um analytics and and um more you know data interpretation and you didn't have a non-compete with your current employer well I did but but uh we we we we got out of that that was you got out or you just did it anyways oh I got out of it yeah you went to them and said I want to take some side work and they said okay I went in and and they said no that's not acceptable um you will leave and by the way you are under a noncompete and then the HR person was like go seek a lawyer like she it was a woman yeah she was she was like and she was actually giving you advice to help you not to help the company correct nice so that you did and you went and talked to a lawyer.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

And yeah we got it was out of it because non competes a lot of times in court are ruled they were it was it was it was poorly it was poorly written um not valid you know not enforceable and not enforceable so that it didn't it didn't ever get to court you just had a lawyer draft a letter and they said fine and then you went away that's how I left yeah okay so and then it and then you know there was so you hadn't started taking on side business until so you didn't just do it on the side and not tell anyone you went to them to be up front and and it was also like hey could I could you come could could I you be a client of mine can I just be a consultant right and help either fill my position or can I do 10 hours 15 hours of work of things and that's when they're like no no out and were these two clients um current clients of the company were they previous clients of the company one was a previous another was a prior employee who had left the company like a decade prior prior.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Yeah oh yeah there was no there was no conflict stealing away their clients wow well good good for that HR person you know we women like we said at the beginning need to stick together and for telling you and you know and giving you that empowering message you might have done it on your own but for her to I wouldn't have I didn't know you wouldn't have you wouldn't have I wouldn't have I wouldn't have I didn't know I mean that's again it was all um I probably would have just and that's where we you know we sat down and said okay if you know maybe I shouldn't but okay well that now I've already departed so let me just take the moment I'll do these couple of gigs um and kind of work you know and also these two folks were like if I need to call the agency owner and just go what the fuck like excuse my like like like what what the hell like we're I'm not bringing any like we don't do we don't have any business with you there this is I'm I'm it's a company that's never done business with you um and then it was a you know past employee who was like I'm not bringing this business to you this is I don't need a an agency I need her I need her brain um and and so they were you know they're like do I need to go fight and I was like no no validating yeah that must have been that did that you think give you really the courage and the confidence to say this is the right move for me it did it gave me that and and also just with um kind of my my my HR friend that was just like don't just don't worry just keep going um nothing's gonna stop and it also just gave me some pause so that was in the summer of 2013 and so it was um and then you know I got to officially like announce my departure and then and it was uh you know taking those couple of I said get let me not start until like September or October. I just need let me get some some head just some mindset just some space to like think through this what's gonna happen and to kind of decide of and honestly what my my three paths what I was thinking of okay I'll do these two gigs pick up maybe a couple other you know and try to try to match my salary and just work a few gigs or do I go work for another agency? Do I go now that I'm out go shop myself around or you know I've always been on the agency side is this an opportunity where I want to go brand side and go corporate so that's where never was thinking I'm gonna hold it you know actually create an agency bit like what is the vision for that what's the structure of that what's the you know the whole identity positioning how am I going to be different like wasn't even there yet I was just thinking these are my three paths and and what was your husband's reaction was he was like no nervousness about the family's finances or about your benefits or your lack of 401k or anything like that. No it was uh it was the because the benefits were crappy anyway um you know they were okay I mean but it's it wasn't like I was and we could be on his um so I did have you know that like safety net there but he was like with the the two he's like I think with the time you can gain back some time um and and it was all take that and figure out those three paths and he was like I think you you know you can feel the gig but go work for somebody else saying you're you know it's everything's figure it out figure out you know we can do this and it was inter so as you know I started announcing um my departure my phone was ringing off the hook and it was like every agency in town was like hey let's can we have a can we talk to you what's going on um I like my my uh people that I'd worked with in the past whether it was clients current clients were calling going what are you gonna do if you're gonna set up a shingle let me know I might move my business over there and I was like hold on you know wait we don't know about that uh um and but it was you know rewarding to hear from people that I'd worked with from agencies prior to this one um copywriters other media people that I work with um research folks account people who were like hey uh you know I'm I'm a solopreneur creative director can you come in and help me be you know I don't want to lose this account but I will if I don't bring somebody else on the the team so that's kind of was was the start of when you hear those stories because you have to remember this was what this is 2013 we're all coming off I'm gonna you know date myself but you know we're coming out of the the 2008 recession right you know it was like marketing was like coming coming back agency health was coming back because for two years between 2008 and what 2010 something like 40 50% of agencies closed their doors between those two year periods and any agencies that survived cut their staff by 20 30% and guess what a lot of those high level people who were really expensive all left and so you had an explosion of solopreneurs out in the marketplace who had been now in their you know working their creative business or their social media business or their website business or their media buying business um or their research business all uh um for for a year two years um and though and that's when I was like oh well now it's getting healthier again but you've got people that were at that level and said I will never go work for another agency I like being I like the tax advantages I like the freedom but I don't like just picking up anything I want to I like the the big agency where we could compete and get those bigger brands um so that was the idea of Bright of I started creating a network of of different people the best and the brightest in different disciplines across the the country most of them were in my you know in the Southeast footprint but they were Midwest folks that you know from from because I'm from Indiana they were people California that we had connected with but you start building kind of that network and I was like okay from it from a client perspective what do they care about they care about dot connection they care about brand consistency and they don't want to have to vendor manage because that's what was happening of as as even the brand side client side businesses were rebuilding their marketing departments you know they were a lot of marketing directors getting rehired they were they were going okay I'm gonna hire a social media agency and then I'm gonna hire a website I'm gonna hire a trade show company and they were and so they were spending all their energy vendor managing and not thinking big picture on strategy um and so we could come in and go look we we can we're pricing ourselves as like a high you know a very value based company to compete but I built all the infrastructure of of the operations so that we all these people are coming you're not getting six invoices but I can design a team around your needs wow a full service agency with you in the center and knowing you had like you said all these bright people around you that you had connected with and they didn't need to know unless they had to interact with that person but they didn't need to know all the particulars it's like just just tell me you know where to send the money how much you figure out we we figured out the scopes we do the back end how great so even so you got to the point of of really getting offering the kind of services the agency you came from yeah but just in a more nimble more modern within a couple years within so I launched Bright at the end of 2013. Within a year yeah within that um yeah just a few months and you've been doing that ever since ever ever since and we've refined our model you know the other thing it was like when I first started out I'm like I never want employees I don't want to deal with performance reviews I want to deal with that because I have like you know 50 60 people that were like I want to deal with that but you know as you start and scale and you realize oh no no no I know this is I need to have more control and and what what also lessons learned of I you know it wasn't necessarily control I needed to build better systems and training and onboarding and giving people more orientation of the bright methods.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

So we've done you know that was lessons learned of new level new devil right but we we've realized that we've got um to survive in now the agency you know industry which is being highly disrupted by AI um and we we've embraced it we have we feel like AI is fantastic for workflows for nimbleness for speed so it fits our positioning and our competitive advantage but we combine it with people who have 20 years experience in their fields um which is fantastic so you have that human component of experience input in experience review out but we're just able to do it with with an acceleration so we've kind of evolved the Bright to be we're a mix of W-2s we're a mix of 1099s strategic partnerships um and really we say you know we're not we're we're we've always said we're an un-agency we're an untraditional we're you know agency we're different we now say we're an acceleration company is that we are a growth team for that is designed specifically for small scaling small and mid-market businesses that again it's that same the same positioning of we're design a team around your needs but it's not necessarily a team we're designing act action plans based on how you need to grow and accelerate and prioritize those needs based on your budget and based on what are your the the the priority to achieve your goals and sometimes that might be we we need a dial up SEO oh nope nope we need to shift that money stop that we need to move that money over you got an operation problem or you have a workplace culture problem or you have no system whatsoever that goes from advertising into like figuring out visibility of closing a sale so how do we build that infrastructure in um and we can pivot within our team nice wow so I want to go back to that time when you realize this is going to work all these people are contacting me I'm gonna have the clients I'm I'm gonna you know you were probably getting excited to do this and at the time before you left your agency in this full-time career that you had where you worked so many hours how did and you had a three year old and a one year old how were you dealing then with childcare were using traditional you know daycare and if you had to travel you know your spouse picked up the slack and then when you realized you were going to be doing you know gig work and and and building up clients and possibly working from home how did your childcare change or did it? Did you just say no I'm just gonna keep it like it is or well since I'm only working 20 hours a week maybe I'll pull the kids out of daycare and I'll just have someone come help me a few hours a day, you know, or did you try to manage on your own like tell me some of the transitions you went through with childcare and family as your career transition.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Yeah so um we didn't we kept everybody in childcare. So we you know again it was we've got you know four kids at the time it was you know one and a half ish to you know 13 uh 12 13 year old and and you know they're obviously in like elementary and middle school and and then two in basically you know uh daycare and we just remake because it was I I I didn't want to get them out of and also when I left the company it was during the summer. So we were you know yes they have daycare but then we're on vacation you know we're we're like let's take a longer vacation because we can now um or I can go and and take the smaller kids put the the two older in camps and I can take and go visit family. So I like I said I got I got time back of I got I got memories I got I got to to do that. Then it was no let's get in the same I don't want the kids to get out of the rhythm of their own social socialization and and child development of and that structure um and and I did I just you know I worked from home I created kind of like a little office and and worked from there but it gave me the I could it was close enough I could walk up the street to go pick them up if I wanted to pick them up early. But I did I just knew I needed to have that mental space of not the worry if somebody said hey can you meet me for lunch because when you know after you know the July August we were taking like our vacation time it was okay I gotta I gotta get serious now what am I doing? Am I which path am I gonna take am I going to get more gigs? Am I go you know get hired by another agency or am I going to go work you know for a for a a brand that was still my and so I filled up my calendar of coffees lunches and and um afternoon cocktails every day straight for probably six weeks um and you know I was just like a machine exploring all three exploring all three exploring and just whatever I you know some it was you know creative directors hey can you meet with me I got you know I might have an opportunity um it was agency owners it was you know I'm driving up to I'm in Greenville I'm driving up to Charlotte or I'm driving to Atlanta for interviews um of agency or corporate so yeah it was like uh boom boom boom um what am I gonna do? And you know during that time it was like I would get maybe a gig like hey can you help me you know with this and oh can you help me with that and so I was picking up jobs here and there. And it wasn't until probably that like Octoberish November timeframe I was like I think I think there's a there there. Because I as I started meeting with other agency owners what I recognized like that were what I would consider more smaller, you know, where in my mind I'm like can I build something to get where they are you know they're they're 30 people today or you know the the these guys are you know it's 10 people or you know I just felt like like a big agency I would never be able to ever be a several hundred you know I was thinking let me talk to the ones that are have been in the market for 10 years and they're you know 10 10 20 30 people and the more I started talking with those folks it was you guys have no agency background and you and you've built a business like a successful business and I've got a background that is so much more depth so much more breadth and um of not just like and listen to them like they don't they never understood how agencies operated how to create systems how to have processes strategic methods even like platforms and tools from a media perspective of you know how do you how do you start departments? How do you how do you give the checks and balances how do you you know all of that I I I lived in that for two decades and I'm sitting there going oh my gosh this person's been in business for you know five years or 10 years or 15 years no agency you know they came from a TV background uh you know they were they were the the the in front of the camera broadcast and they were like well I'm gonna start a or they were a radio sales rep or one person was a Chippendales dancer and just said you know I was meeting all these agency business and clientele of these men who all bitched about their marketing and he thought well I'll just start an agency for that and he's one that's one of the you know he since sold it but it's like one of the most successful agencies in our region. But that's why I'm like oh so it was giving me confidence of you know if that if they can do it why shouldn't I be able to do it uh and then I was when I was interviewing with like brand side corporate side that was on Like this is I I could never do that. You know, one one audience sitting in cubicle, um, structure bureaucracy, no creatives, like no creative energy in these spaces because they outsourced to agencies. You know, and they're like, Well, you would be managing. I'm like, I it's like, I just don't even think I could be in this, like, this is not my environment. I would suffocate here. And it doesn't have enough diversity for me. You know, you realize agency, the like agency pace is uh it's a it's a whole different level. Um, and you're because you're juggling 10, 15, 30, 50 different, you know, audience groups. Um, you're solving on solving problems of different magnitudes, and you're seeing patterns across different, you know, um size of businesses, you're seeing patterns of categories and industries that then can apply to other industries. So it's, you know, my my brain's wired that way. And I just thought I won't, I won't be fueled um in this. So quickly, after about, you know, eight weeks of of interviewing that way, I'm like, corporate side is not me. I just need to, so I either need to just again continue with the gigs or or go work for somebody else. And then it became the working for somebody else. I'm gonna be making them a lot of money. And and then when you see their offers come in and you're going, you know, I'm going, wait a minute. I know the math. I'm like running what I'm doing now in just these little gigs. This is not gonna, and I you know, you're not gonna pay me the near amount of of billings that I can bring. Yeah, no. Like then that that's when the you know, you start running the the numbers and the confidence gets there. Um to be able to to start it. Now I'll say, then you hit the imposter syndrome of starting the business of where'd my confidence go? Um, that's a whole nother, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

That's another podcast. That's a whole nother journey. Jumping into the leadership and then being more than just a boss, being you're being accountable and responsible for everything.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

You take the heat. There is no brand you hide behind. You are it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

And then four years ago, you know, you've got all this, you're getting it figured out, you know, you're moving from just, you know, hiring some gig workers to bringing on employees, you're, you know, thinking about a building, and then you start a whole nother separate business and then serving founders who don't have much money. Not, you know, some of them are getting an infusion of cash when they get funding. But, you know, I mean, to really help the founder community is helping all of them, which means, you know, the ones that are struggling, bootstrapping, you know, and so what inspired you to want to do that when you already have all this on your plate. And so this is, you know, how many years later your kids are still around, right? Now they're probably in that space where they're going to a million soccer practices and big rehearsals. And so you're managing this business and all these clients, and you've built this, you know, this up to a good spot, and then you start something new. Why?

SPEAKER_00 47:29

Um, so it's a it's a great question. And sometimes I might be insane, but so you know, my I I say curiosity is my superpower, right? And I say curiosity is also a business's competitive advantage. It has been, it's it's our core belief that it is truly an advantage. Um, but I'm fueled by that. So I started uh Orange Whip out of the um uh this uh for for helping people like me. Um because it was a gap that that I was seeing throughout my journey. Um and you have to realize like Bright, our clients for for several of our clients were chambers, um, economic development uh organizations, commerce, um, you know, entities, and you know, and then also you're in I'm in the founder community ecosystem here in South Carolina, and that was such a uh uh uh people were on just different areas of the spectrum. I felt there was like a, you know, we get fueled by I'm not alone, right? To know that, and also not just like, okay, you're going through the same crap I am as a founder because there's things where you can't, you don't want to say to your team, you don't want to share some of those those fears and those vulnerabilities, or is this quite like even you know, I became a coach of of like incubators and accelerators. I I've then started being a part of incubators and accelerators, you know. I went through Goldman Sachs um 10,000 Small Business, I've done the Start Me. I've done the you know, the the NRI Streetwise MBA. Um, and and we're all like, can can I ask this question? Is this a safe space for me to ask a question? And then you also then people ask questions or start revealing things, and then you also see people getting their ideas ripped off, uh, somebody that's you know better funded, or oh, I like that idea. I'm gonna go to market faster than you. And because I know you haven't, you're just a startup founder. You didn't protect your yourself. Um, but I saw that pitch you did, and it's kind of in my same market. And all of a sudden, so then you get even more nervous of, oh crap, where is Safe Space? Um or you see the advice being given again in these, in these, the universities, entrepreneur, you know, um programs, these accelerators from these innovation centers. They're all run by people who have never started a business. These are paycheck people who've had a secure, you know, because they're retirees from, you know, big, big enterprise, uh, Fortune 100 companies who have said, I have a lot to offer. Let me go help the startup community. And I'm gonna start, you know, I'm gonna go be uh an investor. I'm gonna go sit on a PE board, I'm gonna be on a VC board, but they've never, you know, so they're giving all this advice. So I would see founders and and startup companies uh, you know, in these communities across South Carolina. Um, this is again, this is like between 2014 and to 2020, you know, doing all this. And and and they would come and go, like, who gave you that advice? And then like a year later, they've pivoted. And I'm like, who, why wasn't another incubator? And they told me no, go here. And so, God, that that was like you you just put another half million dollars in that pivot. I'd like, who's giving? So you get so founders are getting ping, ping, pinged, um, uh and and or or you know, the the the stolen from or just the the fear of of can I can I ask questions because I'm not sure if if I don't want to sound stupid, um or the the uh um uh just the the lack of knowledge of, you know, like I know the marketing space and the operations, but I don't know, like I didn't know accounting, finance, like that, IT, like that infrastructure, foreign. Um other people come from, you know, if they're a tech company, I they understand like coding and development, but they have no idea about operations. And so everyone's coming at it from this, you know, we we're lacking in areas, but we're being advised by people with I what I call a sustainer mindset. They they've never had to bootstrap, they've never had to um figure out scale up because they've all worked in companies where the systems were already in place. Um and and and also there were the the unwelcoming of certain rooms. So if you're you know, in a lot of ecosystems, if you're not tech, if you're not um whatever the economic development entity that's gatekeeping that ecosystem, if you don't fit that profile as a um as an impact entrepreneur for that market, you're you're not welcome. You don't feel welcomed in these networking opportunities, in these pitch rooms. I mean, literally, I've I've heard stories of women that walk in or people of color or somebody that's in an industry outside of, you know, like in South Carolina, it's advanced manufacturing, robotics, bioscience, you know, tech. So if you're outside of that, I've had you know stories of people like walk up and go, Hey, I love what you're doing. Can I meet you? And they're like, what do you do? Oh, I'm in, you know, I'm a service-based business for and the, you know, um started my accounting firm or whatever. They've been like, oh, that's nice and walked away from right. So if you don't fit into that, or they when I say the gatekeeping of, hey, we want, we want to support you, we want to hear your story, we want to showcase you in our market as like the goal, you know, we're gonna promote you, we're gonna help you get, and and those are highly edited and um and and and filtered out. So it so it makes that region look better. So then it got my camera. I'm like, is this just this ecosystem? Is this how this works? So we started doing research of of different ecosystems across the country, and it's like, we're not an anomaly. This happens a lot. Every ecosystem is has its gatekeepers, it's filtered, you know, how it's designed. And um, I was like, I don't want other people to feel like me, and I don't want other people to feel like to feel as lost as me, or to feel like to feel unwelcomed, or to feel like um, you know, they're they're just not alone. And and how do we help? Because Bright's always been about how do we help people accelerate faster. Businesses Orange Whip was designed of how do we tell stories, how do we provide tools and resources, how do we map these ecosystems so they can navigate the spaces um without being gate without gatekeepers and giving the confidence back to the founder to do that so that they can accelerate faster. So two different business models. Bright's a service-based, right? We're we're we're we are hired to perform brand work, marketing, ecosystem work, business coaching work, and and advertising, running, you know, media campaigns. That's you know, but Orange Whip, it is if we build a community of founders and serve that community with them in mind, then the people that want to be in front of those, that community will sponsor, will want their message to be. So it is a uh it's a media company that supports like no different like an iHeart or um you know, business, you know, the American Business Journals of we sell ads in our and sponsorships of our podcast. We sell ads and sponsorships of our newsletters as our and we co-create with field guides. Um and we have contributor, you know, contributors that pay to um to have their articles, their leadership notes published um on the platform and and in the newsletters. So two different business models, um, but all serving um with fueled by curiosity and with the idea of both accelerate the the companies. So um, yeah, if we can help some of the founders and they come over as bright clients, fantastic. But when I go and try to do new business for Orange Whip, it is uh it's really to the economic developers. It's to maybe accounting firm that wants to sell their services to a founder or an IP attorney that wants to get their message in front of um small business owners that are starting, you know, that they're designed for those startups or SEO service, you know, that's um uh that's who we that's who we target for the for the revenue.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

And that's beautiful that you saw this need because you experienced the problem yourself and you said, even with all the things on my plate, I'm gonna create something for this because there's a gap here. So with all the things that you've done, you know, with your earlier career, with building the business, with this new platform, if you could go back to one time, an earlier version of you, knowing then what you know now, what's one thing you would change?

SPEAKER_00 58:08

Um I would have become more comfortable um being more founder visible uh uh of uh you know, we talk about the imposter syndrome of, you know, I was I was in boardrooms, I was doing speaking engagements before I let, you know, it was it I had this, you know, this great confidence. And then when I started bright, it's like that kind of it deteriorated. I felt like I would be better behind the scenes. Um, because I am kind of a, you know, I'm a I'm a nerd, you know, when it comes to to I'm figuring out the the problem. I'm that's all I'm doing. I'm solving problems. Um, I didn't realize the power of of my voice until probably way later than I should have. And it wasn't until I started Orange Whip that I found my voice. Like to be, you know, really more public of and not just presenting, you know, a case study or let me tell you about this, you know, this research, because that's what I would do speaking engagements for of, you know, I did this big study and let me break this down of what this means. And I would go into like market trade shows or whatever. But again, I felt like I'm serving, um I'm still a behind-the-scenes data nerd to find the voice of like, oh, I've lived through some shit. I've got advice, I see patterns, you know, we and we were tracking patterns and and we, you know, there is um there's a power in that. And then the power of building that network. I wish I would have started not just building it, I wish I would have done that earlier. Um, but to reach out and and build connections beyond just, hey, we're connected on like so that I didn't start until much like because I'm not I I'm a learned extrovert. I'm a natural introvert. So even like it, it takes me just to do a DM in LinkedIn. I like I still have to like psych myself into it. Or if I go to an event, I have to make a game, a chance challenge for myself of all right, I'm going to this event, I need to meet five new people. Um, and this is gonna be my talking points. This is gonna be my little my questions I'm gonna ask because I'm in this environment. This will be great. Like I have to have that. And then when I go home and and I, you know, it just completely drains me of because it's not natural for me. But I see the what but when then it leads to a one-on-one conversation or you know, a a friendship, I'm like, man, why didn't I do this? Why was why was I so afraid of this? Um, and then watching how people, I'm fascinated with people who are very natural at it, uh, that can just work a room. And then trying to go, okay, I gotta build that courage up because that's so to watch those connections happen and accelerate in you know, in an accelerated manner. I'm just going, all right, I need to, that's something I can learn it. I can learn that. And um, and that's what I've been practicing for the last three years. Nice. It was yeah, three years ago. It was you gotta do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

And I wish I would have started that in 2013, 2014.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

I hear that a lot. That's people you wish they had taken the leap sooner. And we all learn, we all learn every day. And I know that our listeners are learning from from the insights that you've shared today. And I and I thank you for that. And I thank you for watching and listening. If you were inspired by today's story, remember to share it with a friend, leave a review, and subscribe to meet our next amazing guest. If you or anyone you know is struggling to find the right childcare, just submit your criteria and then watch a video interview with the ideal nanny who fits your family at momsub.com. That's momsub like a substitute mom. Our mission is for you to get the help you need so you can discover what you want in life, pursue it with intensity, and fulfill your dream, reducing your stress, guilt, and self-criticism, and increasing your calm, confidence, and clarity along the way. Remember, your career, your choices, and your success are yours to define. So keep pushing boundaries and spreading your love and encouragement to other women who need it.