67: Working Full-Time While Raising NINE Adopted Children | Women and Work

Multiple kids. A full-time career. A growing ministry.

When Debbie Simmons suddenly became a mom to five children overnight through adoption, she knew that surviving wasn't enough. Instead of letting the chaos take over, she built a simple system that gave every child a voice, created structure, and allowed her family to thrive—all while continuing to work full time.

In this episode of Women and Work, Debbie shares how overcoming unimaginable personal tragedy shaped her leadership, motherhood, and mission to help thousands of families heal through trauma counseling. From engineering to ministry, nonprofit leadership, and raising nine adopted children, her journey proves that structure, resilience, and purpose can coexist.

In this episode, we discuss:
• Raising five children while working full time 
• Why family schedules reduce stress 
• Leading through tragedy and trauma 
• Building a successful nonprofit from scratch 
• The Architecture of Trust 
• Balancing leadership and motherhood 
What's one system or routine that has made your family life easier?

Learn about building your own legacy at The Architecture of Trust: https://thedebbiesimmons.com/

Struggling to find the right child care? Get a video interview of your ideal nanny at https://www.momsub.com/child-care-options

#WomenAndWork #WorkingMoms #Leadership #Parenting #WomenInBusiness

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

My kids learned very early that we had a schedule that rotated every every 30 minutes to an hour. We all agreed on the schedule. This was so powerful that they all participated on writing the schedule. And I got to write the things that I needed done in it, and they got to write the fun things that they would like to do in it. So nobody was on the comp you know, we only have one computer, so nobody was sharing the computer. You got your time on the computer, and then you rotate it. But we would set a timer and we'd hit the bell and off they go, and then they would go, What's next? after one hour, and they go look at their schedules that were all laid out in the kitchen, and they hit the bell and they go to the next ones. Um and I got really smart in there that I would book uh 30 minutes with each child uh to do stuff with mom one-on-one, and 30 minutes with their dad. And that's two and a half hours of our time, everything else they can do on their own.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Welcome to Women and Work, the show where we take an inside look at how women are overcoming our own unique challenges as we grow our careers or build a business while nurturing relationships and family. I'm Diane Mocha, founder and CEO of MomSub, the childcare app that connects you to a substitute mom. And I want you to know that work can fit your life. Each week we meet a woman who has done that. And today I'm with Debbie Simmons. Debbie is the creator of the Architecture of Trust, a consulting service for faith-driven leaders to design their legacies. She spent 15 years running the nonprofit Anchor Point, where she started to provide programs to help families overcome trauma. Debbie began her career more than 30 years ago as an engineer and has also worked as a sales trainer, a marketing consultant, a minister. Wow, you've done so much, Debbie. Thank you for being here. It sounds like a lot. It is a lot. Be proud of that. You have done all these different things. And I wonder if that was sort of the path you intended, or if you encountered some obstacles and maybe had to adjust. We want to talk about some of the barriers. And I want to start by asking you what you think has been the biggest challenge in your career, specifically because you are a woman. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

So I there's about six questions there, so let me try and get them. But um I would say uh, you know, from the perspective, there's two things that have um always been a challenge for me is one, most of my life I have spent uh growing up in male-dominated fields, whether it was uh umpiring baseball as a girl, um mechanical engineering, and being one of only two women in a big program, and then you know, going into engineering and working in that field, then leaving that, going to seminary is pretty male-dominated. Uh start, you know, startups a lot of times are male-dominated. And so uh I would just say, hey, you know, one of the things that it served me well is that as I went into male-dominated fields, one is I knew my stuff. I knew how to be successful in those arenas. Baseball, I knew the rules better than a lot of the guys that were my age, you know, and just little things like that. Because, and and I could walk with, you know, I didn't really understand it then, but I could walk with confidence that I was competent in what I was being called to do. And so that has served me well to go, hey, lift up your shoulders, you know your stuff, walk with it. Because most women don't enter in these male-dominated markets where we don't know our stuff. We know it because we wouldn't even enter it if we didn't know it, you know, because we are gonna prepare ourselves. And so that has served me really well. And then another thing that has served me really, really well is um we are gonna all run into challenges. We're gonna always run into challenges. It doesn't matter where we are working, what kind of mom we are, there will always be pressure. And, you know, one of the things that I had to learn very early on was to lay down the question of why and know that I did not have to have an answer for it this side of heaven. Um, because why? You know, it's one, it's one thing if it's like why, and I'm trying to solve a problem and I'm trying to fix that. But, you know, for me, I uh lost children very early in my relationship with my husband. And when I did, I I really wanted the answers to that, right? Like, why did it have to be me and why my boys and why this and why, why, why? And that is a stuck question for me as a mom, for me as a woman, and for me as a leader. Okay, I cannot do anything with that question because even if God Himself would have shown up and given me the answer, I would have said, why? Because that ain't good enough, right? It doesn't solve the pain, it doesn't, you know, bring my boys back, it doesn't do any of that. So I had to learn to lay that question down and be okay with it, not getting that answer and learning to ask a different question. How do I survive? And that was take my next best step and do that over and over and over and over again. And then as I got better, I learned the question of not how do I thrive survive, but how do I thrive? And how do I take this tragedy, this difficult situation, and let it be used for God's glory, for you know, my future success, for impact on other people. And that learning has stayed with me for decades. And it's still the same thing as CEO. Something comes up and I want to naturally go, what? And then I have to go, okay, I got to put that aside. How do I survive it? How do I thrive? And that has been the key to success um for me through the years with all the different things that I've faced.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Wow, Debbie, I'm so sorry. I see why you may have been inspired to start a nonprofit that helps people with trauma. And so we are a society that asks why. And and sometimes we're a society that asks why not, right? That's why we're the strongest, freest country in the world, most people think. So it's natural for our listeners to want to know what happened, Debbie. This sounds like a horrific experience. Can you recount for us what you went through?

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Yeah, no, I just we had always wanted to have children, and uh I knew I had infertility issues, and it took us about five uh five years to get pregnant. We were pregnant with twins. I attempted a miscarriage, ended up in the uh high-risk doctor's office, and he told me I was pregnant with quads. And every day became a uh miracle to make it to the next day. And the boys were um, the goal was 30 weeks. The boys uh we made it to 26 weeks when my water broke, and then um they put me in the hospital, and the first one was born at 26 weeks, and they placed a little um Zach in my arms, and I rocked him and I held him as till he drifted into eternity. And then my body got very sick and couldn't handle the other three, and I had to induce, and I did it over again and over again and over again. And that is where I sat that night when I had to learn to lay that question down because I didn't want to be stuck forever.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

So you lost all four.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yeah. Yeah. It the f it was uh it was about 32 years ago, and the boys technology today would save those babies. Um and uh it would just was not available then. And um while it's a experience I wouldn't wish anybody to go through, um it it was a journey that um has ultimately been a blessing as we've walked through it and grown and stretched and the impact that my boy's legacy continues to have um through the nonprofit and through the work that we get to do. Um and I'll be with him in eternity, and that'll be a short time from now.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

And you did not go on to have any other children.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Um we did about um six or seven years later. Um try to have a children, but I just wasn't up for it. So we have adopted nine children with trauma backgrounds. Um so we've done adoption three different times, and now I have 15 with the 16th grandbaby on the way.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Oh my gosh, what a journey, Debbie. So you you had this um horrific trauma that you experienced that you let um not define you in a negative way, but help you to see life in a new way. And you then realized that your body was not gonna bear the children you thought it was, but that didn't mean you couldn't be a mother, and you adopted nine children, and now you have you said 15, so you have six grandkids? Fifteen grandchildren, only six on the way. So you have 15 grandchildren and nine grown children. And so you went through being a mother and through all of this, you wanted to maintain a career. You started in engineering, but that changed as you. I want to hear about, you know, what caused these different changes in in your life. Was it the things that you will you were learning as life gave you these, you know, very tough obstacles to overcome that adjusted the career path you took?

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Yeah, you know, nothing is a straight line, I've decided. Everything that I have personally gone, okay, I'm gonna go from A to Z, and I have this plan, it never works out that way. It's always this zigzag thing that I'm like, okay, well, I somehow I got there. But um, when I was after I lost the boys, I was still working as an engineer, and I really felt like God was leading me into pursuing ministry type options. So that led to leaving that, going into seminary and getting a degree there, and then beginning to work on church staffs. And I did uh I worked with Chuck Colson at Prison Fellowship for about five years running prison ministry in different states. And what it actually comes down to is as I learned to ask the question, how do I thrive? I basically said, Okay, God, you're a redeemer of stories. You take my story and you redeem this story and you use it to help people and everything like that. And as I did that, he began to open up all these crazy opportunities. So that's where being on the church staff, then moving and working with prison fellowship, and then uh helping a doctor start up his business. And then God was like, start this ministry. And I'm like, okay, you're kidding me. I got seven kids in the house, and it's gonna take a lot of time and a lot of money. And he's like, do it. And I'm like, oh my word. And I just finally relented and said, okay, I'll do it. And um, it's been a wonderful ride. And now, you know, it serves literally thousands of families every year. It's a multi-million dollar business. Uh, and it's it's just gotten bigger and bigger and bigger, and now God lets me consult with other CEOs and train them up and do all that type of stuff. And all those things are just opportunities that He continues to give me as I'm faithful with the resources that I have and to do what I've been asked to do. So, how can I make that kind of impact?

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Wow. So you started adopting and you adopted babies?

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Oh no, I didn't do it that way. I I decided, my husband and I decided that we did not want to have anybody in diapers. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

So we adopted schoolers, our kids in elementary school.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Yeah. So my first adoption was a sibling group of five. They were six, seven, eight, nine, and ten. And then eight years later, a sibling group of two, and they were 11 and 13, and then my others were 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. And then three years after that, we got a nine-year-old, an 11-year-old, brother and sister, and then my other ones were 13, 15, 16, 17, all the way up to 21. So now they're 34, uh, down to 21. And so uh it's never quiet.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

That's for sure. So when you made this big decision to adopt, and and then you actually took that step and became a mother. Did you at that point say, I'm gonna step aside from the career, whatever that career was? Or did you say, I'm gonna continue to work, be a working mom? You said you had when you first adopted, you went from no kids to five kids? Yeah, to a basketball team. Overnight. Overnight. And you kept your career and the job you were doing. Was it full time? Did you adjust at all?

SPEAKER_01 13:07

This is really funny. It it was full time, okay. And this is the funniest story is um, you know, we'd been married 11 years and we were kind of set in our ways too, right? Because we just kind of did our thing as a couple. And when these kids moved in, uh, I remember the very first day they were there, the youngest one, he was six. He comes, you know, it's a basketball team, so they go play. They're easy, you know, because they're all siblings. And so he comes in running in and he goes, he looks up at me, and I'm looking at him, and he goes, What's for dinner? And I look at this kid and I'm going, Do you ask this every day? Because I am not ready for this. Because I didn't really cook. And so fortunately, I had an organizational management degree that allowed me to put systems in place and do all this stuff to get this chaos under control. But um, he was so cute, and I just was like, I am in over my head. And I did work full-time. I and my I was on staff at a church at the time, and they were very gracious. But um, the the other challenging thing was when these children first moved into her home, was we were in South Carolina, and um my husband works for NASA, and they required him to move back to Texas. And so we couldn't move until the adoption was finalized. So he left me, and now I'm a single mom with five kids and working a job. And, you know, uh Fortune had very gracious friends that helped us. Um, and these kids were, you know, even with their trauma backgrounds, uh, I find sibling groups are um a little easier to handle um because you can see kind of how they relate. And these kids had foster parents who were absolutely wonderful with them. Uh so uh I did it uh for six months on my own, and he would come back about every third week or so. Um, and uh we made it, and then we all moved to Texas.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Wow. And did you consider stepping back, you know, telling the church, I think I need to focus on these five kids or go part-time? Did you have a lot of flexibility to come and go, to work from home, you know, before that was a thing? How did you make that work? Because most women out there would probably feel bad. Oh my gosh, I have two kids and I'm barely keeping my head above water. How did she do it and she seemed so calm about it?

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Uh, well, I did not leave my job. I stayed full-time. Um, they were very gracious in, you know, giving me the time that I needed to make adjustments that I needed to do. And we had good, you know, one of the things I always tell adoptive families is make sure you have a good support network that can help you figure your way um with these children. And uh we just incorporated a system pretty fast, right? I that organizational management degree and my kids were wonderful. Uh and we had we had issues and dealt and dealt with all those types of things, but um I I did keep I did keep working. Was I tired? Sure. Um, but um I did not feel like God was telling me at that point to stay at home from that perspective.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

So but at that point you had not started your nonprofit, correct? No, I I was working full-time on a church staff, yeah. Gotcha. And so what led to you starting a nonprofit and then running it all those years? Obviously, you were inspired to help others with trauma, but besides that, in even being called to do it, the actual doing of it, that's a whole nother thing, right? So, you know, not just what led to it, but how did you make it happen without feeling like this is too much for me?

SPEAKER_01 16:45

I, you know, to be honest, I have no idea how I survived all this, but um, now that you're making me talk about it, I'm like, I don't know how I did that. Uh, but I did have at the time we had adopted a second time, so I had seven kids. Um, and granted, they were 11 through 18, so they're a little easier to manage, you know, from that versus preschoolers and elementary kids. And they were very involved in helping us start it. But the truth of the matter is that what I find with anything that we want to accomplish, I literally, that thing I learned when I lost my boys, take the next best step. Because when I felt like I was called to do it, I'm like sitting there going, I don't have any idea how to do a nonprofit. I've never done it before. And so I I had a friend that was willing to kind of partner alongside of me. And we would just sit there and go, okay, what's the next thing we should do? Okay, we should incorporate. Okay, well, how do you do that? Okay, let's do that. And so we did that. And then we were like, okay, we got to file for uh tax exempt status, do the 501c3. And so we filled that out and sent it in and it got accepted. Then you have to tell people that you have this crazy dream of something that you want to do, right? It's not like selling books or selling widgets or whatever. I got to tell people I have this crazy dream, and I want you to buy into the dream and invest your money for potentially no return on your part. Okay. And I'm like, would you like to dream with me? And we just started talking, and it was amazing because we took positive steps forward and held loosely to our dream. We let God kind of dictate, you know, what doors were open or closed and which way we should kind of go. And um, he was faithful in all of that. I could tell you the 501c3 came through in 90 days exactly. That's the shortest it can ever come through. No rejections, no nothing. And it was during a time when uh nonprofits were having trouble getting those approved in the uh government. Um, and it came straight back and we talked to a bunch of pastors, and they said, Oh, we'd be supportive of it, not money-wise, but we'd send volunteers and people to utilize the service. And I was like, Okay. And then we had a meeting with about 200 people and just said, Here's this crazy idea. And people were like, Yeah, this is great. And I'm like, what are we doing? Okay, and so we did the next thing, and then next thing you know, we found a location, and then people started coming, and then we're sitting there, and I'm going, maybe we should do some education stuff. Okay, let's figure it out. That is exactly how we built it. And I still run that today, along with do the other things that I get to do. Um, but it's just amazing the impact in the lives. And there are children that are, you know, 16 years old that are taller than me, that I go, oh, you're here because of that ministry. And that let that just get you excited. So I would say, hey, when you see the impact, that gives you a lot of energy to keep going. And it is important as I've done this stuff, is it's important to learn to know where our limits are and to know that we need to recharge and take care of ourselves and um so that we can be the people that can be present. Because about five years ago, I got an injury in my leg that wouldn't heal. And I realized that oh my gosh, external stress, internal stress, raising nine children with hard backgrounds, all this stuff was piling onto me, and I wasn't taking care of me as well as I should, and my injury wouldn't heal. And it got a staph infection, and what I noticed was in the ministry itself, we began to see cracks, and the cracks were because I had operated at the heroic, and I had my finger holding all the water that's trying to come out of the bucket, and it just revealed that, hey, we have got to strengthen the structure so it's not dependent on a heroic leader, right? And that is what we've been doing over the last six years, which is the architecture of trust that's coming out in a new book, um, to talk about hey, how as executive leaders we can set ourselves up for success and set our organizations up to thrive well past us because I go, wouldn't it be cool? I get anchor point to the place, and it's still impacting people, even as I, the founder, move on and do that for decades to come. And so um, yeah, balance is we got to find balance. And I think your question is a good one. Is I I really I don't know. I just found the way to do it. That's that's the best answer I got.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

I can see how one led to another, led to another. So when you started Anchor Point, when you first started going down that road of, well, I want to do this, and I guess we just file for 501c3. Did you make a a physical step to tell the ministry where you were working full time, I'm leaving, I'm gonna devote my time to this? Or did you do it as a side hustle and add another thing to your plate?

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Well, it's really funny. Funny, I was very, very, I really felt like God was leading me to do it. And um I kept telling him no. I was like, heck no, that's gonna take too much time, too much money, too much energy. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Go get someone else. And uh he was like, no, it's you. And I'm like, no, no, no. And uh this went on for a while. And my job at prison fellowship uh went away in a week and it disappeared. Okay, and it was a very painful. And uh as soon as the dust settled, God was like, Do you have time now? And I was like, I guess so. I'll do what you say now, I'll be obedient. And during that time, I actually ended up helping a doctor start up his practice. Um, and while I was doing that, we were filing the paperwork and starting the different things that we needed to do. And the paperwork piece doesn't really take a lot of time, it just is like you got to figure it out. And um, that that wasn't too bad. But um, once we started serving people, then there became a time where it just became too much. And I walked away from helping that doctor and uh said, Hey, I'm gonna do this. But when I started helping him, I went in with this concept of I'll help you because I have some bandwidth right now, and financially it's a good thing for us. But I'm starting this ministry and that's my highest priority. And so at some point we're gonna part ways. And he was a uh and is a very good donor to the ministry still today. So we're still really good friends from that perspective.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

So when you start a nonprofit, you have nothing, right? You have a name usually and maybe some helpers and no money, and and of course you raise money. But did you design it so that you could hire people so that you could pay yourself? How long did it take you for others who may say, I'm called to do something, but I'm worried, you know, I have a you know, family I have to take care of. You know, how long did it take where you were able to pay yourself and then a salary maybe even that was equivalent to what you used to do, or maybe that never even happened?

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Great question. And I'm gonna be honest, uh, is that uh the initially the cost is high for whoever does it? Time, money, all that stuff. I knew that going in. And um, for the first, my goal was never to work full-time in the ministry. My goal was to just be on the board, and so we hired someone initially and another part-time person to start the ministry. She um wanted to be a grandma, and so she transitioned out pretty quickly uh as she got her ability to have grandkids and all this good stuff. And then we were sitting there and my friend and I kind of looked at each other and said, Okay, who's gonna do it? No one holds a passion as much as we do. And I told her she could do it, and she said, You need to do it. And so we eventually landed on me need to do it, and so I did it. And for the first about three years, um, I would work without pay and I would also write checks out of my personal bank account to cover whatever payroll there was. And so there were plenty of times that I called my husband and I said, dude, I just wrote a $5,000 check. Do not spend any money. And he would say, Okay. And then his next question would be, is there money in the bank? And I'm like, I don't know. I didn't look. Um, and the reason is is because I'm going, God, this is your ministry and this is your money. You figure it all out. And we have never been destitute or broke. Um, and we've always had our needs met. And so I did that. So I was super excited when we got to a point where we could, I didn't have to write checks anymore. And then we could pay me a little bit. And then one of the things that I know for the ministry to survive, we cannot underpay these key positions because let's say I was to leave. If you're not paying me at a rate that I've got to go hire someone at, it's a disservice to the ministry. And so we have worked really hard over the years to get the salaries in line with what would be out there that we would, you know, if we had to go hire someone. And so our salaries are in line and we've done really good over the years. And so we we wouldn't have a problem replacing any staff person at this point. But the first three years, and it's interesting when you're talking to donors, donors, when you're starting something like that, their first response is, oh, that's great. Let's see if you make it. And they don't give very much money. I'm like, what? And so at around year three was when things really began to open up and people would say, Oh, you're gonna make it. Because most startups don't make it even out of the first year, right? And then they don't make it five years, and then they don't make it 10 years. And I'm like, I told you I was gonna be here. And so now I can say, This is year 16. We're still here. So, um, but to get a lifelong donor, it's a three-year process.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

So wow, phenomenal achievement. And so you are still the CEO, getting paid as a CEO. So tell me, how many people do you have on staff? Are they full-time or part-time? How many people have you helped over the years?

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Yeah, so we we generally uh we generally service about uh 3,000 plus people a year um in the ministry every year. And um staffers, uh, I probably I don't know the exact number right this second, because we just have a contract that is expanding what we're doing, but I think I have about 18 or 20 that are full-time. And then um we have probably 10 or so that are part-time, and then we have probably about 50 regular volunteers that are volunteering on a daily basis, and then we have additional ones that come in and do one-off things or events and stuff like that. So we're always we're always trying to use our volunteers in our community because we know we can expand our impact. Um, and that is one of the major objectives of each staff member is how can we utilize our volunteers to expand what we do? So that's a that's about the size right now that I think that's about the size of the staff.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Wow, that's quite an achievement to grow it like that. So tell me how it evolved, you know, because so many people want to start a business or a nonprofit, and it's similar, not the same, but similar, and you have an idea of how things are gonna go, and they don't always go that way. Like you said, it's never a straight line. You know, how did it change and evolve from what you thought your original vision was or stay true to it? And and what kinds of pivots did you have to make in order to survive that long?

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Yeah, so I would say for me, I hold lightly to the dreams that God has given me. So I'm okay if we have to kind of go this way and then back this way, trusting that He is gonna lead us in that. Um, but I would say what we did was we knew we wanted, we had a kind of a napkin that we drew the stuff on. And um I just put that to the side and I went, okay, what's the first thing we're going to do? And the thing that we wanted to do, the door kept closing on. And so we uh I wanted to start with working with kids that were adopted and helping those families and doing maybe placement, and that door kept closing. So we started with young women who were um who were finding out they were pregnant and they didn't know what to do, and they were overwhelmed and scared and they were trying to figure their way. So we started there. Um, and it was okay because it was it was just a little different, but we're like, okay, let's go over here and this is where people are coming to us, people are sending them to us, and let's begin. And then what we did was we said, okay, what are the needs that we need to meet? And we had a lot of wonderful mentors that are doing this type of stuff across the country that are very uh gracious to give us ideas and thoughts, and they would plant seeds of here's you know, here's how we laid out our stuff. You can lay it out similarly, and we would start making those layouts, and then we'd go, that's not working for us. So let's change that thing and let's do this thing instead. And we just began in my mind, do whatever you're gonna do, fail fast and fail forward, right? And I'm like going, because life is about learning, and you can't learn without you falling apart sometimes. And so it's okay. And what we found was hey, we don't want to do everything for this young woman. We want to do it with this woman. Because if I do it for her, then she does not feel empowered. If I do it with her, then we're raising her up to be the parent that she needs to be. And, you know, it's pretty easy if you ask parents, you know, kids don't come with instruction manuals, so they are the instruction manuals, so there's a lot to learn, right? And um, we just started adding in the classes, we added in the medical support, we added in, you know, determined what resources were in our area, and we just began to build each piece of that. And then once we kind of I had a I had a person in my life that would call me every month, and they were a church that was supportive of us, and this gentleman he would call me and he would go, Miss Debbie, would the ministry survive without you if you weren't there? And this is from the very beginning, and I would go, Nope, nope, nope, and he'd call every month. And there were times I would go, you know what? This part would be okay, but this part still needs me. And so what I had to learn was I had to learn that my biggest job was to work on the business versus in the business. And my job was to figure out how to recruit staff or volunteers to take over responsibilities so that I could be free to work on it. So I've always built that way. And every it's very interesting. A girl that started with me, she started at the front desk and then we hired her. And I was like, okay, what's your, you know, who's your client now? And she would say the clients in the room. And I would like, nah, yours are now the volunteers. And the volunteers are with the clients in the room. She was like, uh, and it took her a long time to make that shift. And then she got promoted. And I was like, hey, who's your who is your clients now? And she was like, the volunteers. I was like, nope, it's the staff. It's your staff that report to you that now have the volunteers under them. And I'm like, you're all and our biggest challenge for every staff member is how do you build your how do you structure what you're doing to work your way out of all of your responsibilities? Because we want to reach more people, we want to conquer more land, we want to do more things, and we cannot do it unless we are building the structure to allow us to be free to do it. And so I go, as long as you're stuck, like if that young lady would have been stuck in a client room, she can see, I don't know, four people a day. She can she can help 15 people. If she has a staff of three and we have 20 volunteers, then now we can see 80 people a week, you know. And so, um, so I think it's important for us to learn what we need to do. And only I, uh it's as we get bigger, more people, but only I can really look at the health of the whole organization. And I'm the one that has the vision, and I can only provide the vision. So my deal now is vision, vision, vision, where are we going next? Structure, structure, structure. What does it take for us to be able to do this and for each of us to be able to continue to move and grow? And leadership is aligned, decisions are clear, and we can execute reliably. Um, and our organization can move and move quickly and not be stuck in the bog of you know, things have come back to my desk. And I'm like going, why is that on my desk again? I I don't understand. And that, you know, that's what slows us down. So that's how we've built and tried to expand and grow. And I don't think that's any different for my business or a business that is a fee-for-service type thing.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

I I agree. Yes. What you're describing is very typical for a lot of startups. And you have the the time and the focus with your kids being grown. Of course, you have grandkids and you have grown kids and you have a large family, but it's different than when they're running around at home. You know, when you first had that all of a sudden, you know, five years old to, you know, nine-year-old brood kind of move in and ask you what's for dinner, what kind of help did you have? Did you, you know, you the kids were in school, but in the summer they probably weren't. After school, you may have still been at the church doing your administrative work. So how did you deal with child care? You know, you even if you had assistance, sometimes it's not consistent in the way that it can be if you go out and you say, I need to get this piece in place. You know, did you think about that in advance or figure it out sort of after they came along? And what did you do and did that change over time of how you were able to get help for them?

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Yeah, so uh you definitely have to be very structured, very organized, and have have a plan. And it's so funny that you say I don't have little kids running around my house because right this second, I have five under six running around right this second. And no one else there to help you? No, my daughter's in the other room, but she has left it a very difficult relationship, and she's got three, and one of my sons has two more, and they're all like going crazy. And I'm going, I've never had this many little ones. And I'm looking at her and I'm going, you better get a plan. Because I'm like, I can't handle this, and we got to have a plan. So the fact that you guys haven't heard them yet is a win. Um, so we're we're doing good, but it means, you know, when we look at like these little kids that are here, man, their attention spans are 15 minutes at the tops. So literally seconds, right? Yeah, so literally we write a schedule for every 15 minutes. Uh and it's downstairs, and the kids know exactly what they're doing, how they're transitioning, and everything. And one of them, one of the coolest things that I got because I had a lot of flexibility to still be at home. And when they were home in the summers, a lot of times we did camps and different things like that. But when they were home, my kids learned very early that we had a schedule that rotated every every 30 minutes to an hour. We all agreed on the schedule. This was so powerful that they all participated on writing the schedule. And I got to write the things that I needed done in it, and they got to write the fun things that they would like to do in it. So nobody was on the, you know, we only had one computer, so nobody was sharing the computer. You got your time on the computer, and then you rotate it. But we would set a timer and we'd hit the bell and off they go, and then they would go, what's next? After one hour, and they go look at their schedules that were all laid out in the kitchen, and they hit the bell and they go to the next ones. Um, and I got really smart in there that I would book uh 30 minutes with each child uh to do stuff with mom one-on-one and 30 minutes with their dad. And that's two and a half hours of our time, everything else they could do on their own. Okay, as long as they were kind of supervised. But that gave me the rest of the time, you know, I'm marching and hearing them, but I could do the work that I needed to do. Um, and they got the loving that they needed and the encouragement and stuff like that. And then we threw in wild cards because schedules change. And when schedules change, you've got to be able to handle it. And so, how are we gonna handle it? And how are we gonna swap this up? And if we have to do something difficult, let's put something fun behind it. So, this is where a lot of my trauma training came in very helpful is to help kids, you know, understand what their schedules are gonna be, get rhythms, and to be able to figure out how to make their way in this world. Um, and you know, just this morning I had one of the grandchildren that was having a complete meltdown and it was over a cup. I'm like, dude, we gotta figure out how to get back on track. And um, how are we gonna do it? How can I help you and let's figure this out because we cannot have you crying all day and you're seven. I mean, he's he's six. I'm like, you're six. We can't do this all day. And he's we got it back on track, but he had a misunderstanding with his mother, and he thought she was being mean and she didn't understand him. And I'm like, let's redo it and let's get it fixed and let's keep going. And so we did, and so that of course is what we did, and that's how I did it all through their years growing up. Um, and that schedule thing was wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

You should create an app around that. That sounds like you know, very structured and the kids bought into it. That's great. Now you mentioned that you know, they had this one-on-one time with you and with your husband separately, and then they were off on their own, but supervised. So, who was providing that supervision? Did you have family in the home to help with that?

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Uh, sometimes I had people, but most of the time I could supervise it. I mean, I wasn't shut up in a room and we were all in general areas. So if you had computer time, you were over here. If you were doing schoolwork, you were over there. I mean, and I could, they always go, how do you hear me? And I'm like, I don't know. I just have really good ears.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

But you'd be doing your work while they were doing their thing, and you were doing your work from home at that point. You had that flexibility, and you, and because you had them sort of focused on their tasks and their structure and their schedule, generally you weren't constantly feeling like, you know, you had to be at their beck and call and give them a snack whenever. Well, that'll come in an hour, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Or they knew it was an hour, but we also on the snacks and food, because you never want anybody to go hungry, you had accepted, we have acceptable food that you could access at any time that was in a special place. Um, and so you knew how to take care of yourself. Um, like if you wanted an orange or a yogurt, you knew what the food was that you could have at any time. Uh, so you try and think through all those things. And guess what? When the pressure goes up and it doesn't work, make adjustments.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

That's what we did. Wow, you had a great organization. That sounds almost like the military, you know? And so these parents that struggle, this may be a key for them to really have that kind of an organization in place. That, you know, because you had no choice, uh, I guess, when you had that many. It was either that or it would have just been chaos and you wouldn't have been able to certainly work full-time, you know, and do all the other things you wanted to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

They would have taken me, they would have gotten me. But I think large families are always that way. And the larger the family is, the more organized and structured you have to be. And it's not about, and kids thrive with the right amount of structure and the right amount of nurture. So it's not that we didn't have the nurture, but for kids that come from trauma backgrounds, structure is so important. And so this is a lot of what we do in our therapeutic camps with families. I can't tell you, every family that comes to camp, I talk about the schedule, they're like, that's the smartest thing I've ever heard of. And I'm like, yeah, it'll save you. Um, but the kids love it because they get to participate in making it. And when my kids were young and they would go to their grandparents, and my grandmy parents would let them do whatever. When they get there, every morning they wake up, they're like, What's the schedule? And my dad's like, What schedule? And they're looking for it because then they know how to operate, right? And they're going, we can figure our way. And when you can figure your way, you feel empowered. And that's what they, you know, for these kids, that's so important in a trauma kind of background for them to know and to feel safe, um, is what that is. So I would say anyone that has kids, even if you have one or two, it is empowering for them to have a schedule. It's no different than if you, you and I don't need a schedule because we are writing the schedule and we have control. If someone bigger than us was making my schedule but not telling me, and then I had to jump around and go do whatever they said. I personally would go, uh, excuse me, that's not working for me. Okay, our kids can't say that. And so uh this is, you know, they'll misbehave or whatever. And so this is a way to bring them along.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

Wow. It gives them a sense of autonomy and control, like you said, um, and and just a sense of security, knowing what's next. So, you know, not having to say, you know, when are we going here or can we do this? It's it's all part of the schedule. That's so beautiful that you not only created that for your family, but now you share it with so many other families. You've done all these different things and achieved so much, followed, you know, the calling that drew you to things you thought you weren't even ready for. But if there was a time that you could go back to knowing then in the past what you know now, what's something you would change?

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Oh, well, first of all, anything in the future, I don't even ask anymore. I'm like, okay, God, whatever you want me to do, just tell me the next step because I don't know what it's gonna be like. But I I think what I would if I was talking to my younger self, I think I would tell myself to relax and enjoy the moment more. Not that I would still wouldn't get all these things done, but I don't need to be as intense as I am. Um my kids go, you're intense. And that's just because I'm very focused and very driven, right? And so I think to, you know, to laugh more, to enjoy the time that we have um and to celebrate the moment. So like these children, grandchildren that are in my home now. That wasn't on the radar two weeks ago. They just showed up. And I'm like, I can be frustrated by that or I can go this is my time with that. Let's figure it out and uh let's play and let's have fun. And am I having to adjust my schedule? Yeah. Am I getting much less sleep? Yes. Uh is a washer available when I want it, no, you know. So I'm learning all those things, but they're a lot of fun. And I want them to smile, and I enjoy smiling with them.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

And so I think that that is a thing that I would say, don't miss it while they're young to you're a little less intense now, and kind of reminding others that you we don't have to be as intense. You know, sometimes they say, think about, you know, how how much is this gonna matter in in five years, right? That cup that's bothering you, or the meltdown that your kid's having, right? And so that can help us take that step back. I thank you for all of these insights and and lessons and guidance that you've really shared today on this episode of Women and Work. If you were inspired by today's story, remember to share it with a friend, leave a review, and subscribe to meet our next amazing guest. If you or anyone you know is struggling to find the right childcare, just submit your criteria and watch a video interview with the ideal nanny who fits your family at momsub.com. That's momsub like a substitute mom. Our mission is for you to get the help you need so you can discover what you want in life, pursue it with intensity, and fulfill your dream, reducing your stress, guilt, and self-criticism, and increasing your calm, confidence, and clarity along the way. Remember, your career, your choices, and your success are yours to define. So keep pushing boundaries and spreading your love and encouragement to other women who need it.