59: Embracing Change After Trauma | Women and Work

Facing death as a child changes the way you see fear, uncertainty, and opportunity.

After surviving two heart attacks by age 10 and being told she had less than six months to live, Hanna Bauer learned from her mother and grandmother how to keep moving forward even when the future felt terrifyingly uncertain.

That experience shaped the way she approached leadership, motherhood, business, and major life transitions — from navigating career disruption to rebuilding after divorce while raising five children.

Now, as Faculty at Maxwell Leadership and Founder of HEARTnomics Coaching, Hanna helps others understand that growth often begins in the moments we fear the most.

In this episode of Women and Work, Hanna shares:

• How childhood trauma shaped her leadership mindset
• Why uncertainty can become a source of strength
• The reality of balancing career growth and motherhood
• Lessons from rebuilding life after divorce
• How embracing change creates transformation

How has a difficult season in your life changed the way you approach uncertainty today?

Struggling to find the right child care? Get a video interview of your ideal nanny at https://www.momsub.com/child-care-options

#WomenAtWork #Resilience #LeadershipDevelopment #WorkingMoms #PersonalGrowth

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I had experienced two heart attacks by the age of 10. So when we came to the US, um, yeah, I had less than six months to live. And my parents really came here looking for a cure. I would say my main advocate was my mom, is the one that was the fighter in the family, you know, just looking for every which way. But I would say my grandmother was the one that really sustained me and provided that anchor throughout the entire um entire time. Uncertainty surrounded me the entire time. And it was, I say many times when I started that uncertainty was my best friend. Um it's where I had to learn to live, I had to learn to breathe. And if it wasn't for honestly the strong woman in my life, that I really learned the not only the value of life, but um learning to trust in a time where really trust wasn't there.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Welcome to Women and Work, the show where we take an inside look at how women are overcoming our own unique challenges as we grow our careers or build a business while nurturing relationships and family. I'm Diane Mocha of Mom Sub, the childcare app that wants to connect you to a substitute mom. And I want you to know that work can fit your life. Each week we meet a woman who has done that. And today I'm with Hannah Bauer. She is faculty at Maxwell Leadership, which means she's one of 25 chosen to train the 56,000 coaches and speakers in the network. She's also a mom of five children. Yes, that's five, ranging in age from five years old to 21 years old. She began as a liaison helping those at risk in the Hispanic community. She moved quickly into leadership of large organizations and eventually even started her own publishing company. Wow, that's a lot, Hannah. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Oh, thanks for having me. True pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

So I see that you train leaders, you speak on stages yourself alongside people with influence and power, where women have fought for a lot of years to be recognized and get our seat at the table. So I want to start by asking you what you think specifically has been the biggest challenge in your career because you are a woman.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Letting go of failure, I think that's in general, but making sure that uh in producing, in feeling like I always had to overcome and do way more than my counterparts was a constant pressure that not only felt like um sometimes leading to burnout, but also that feeling of not enough that I didn't quite see in my counterparts. They're like, ah, no big deal. And here I am just trying to like perform and really outperform or that really something it eventually got in the way, which is where I learned a lot of my lessons.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

You know, I hear this so much from women. And I wonder in your case, if it was internal or external or both. I hear from women who say, you know, I would apply for those promotions. I would try to show that I had everything they were looking for, and men would still get those positions over me who were less qualified. Other women would say that, you know, I just didn't feel like I belonged. So maybe I didn't advocate for myself as well as I should have, even though in some night I knew that I deserved more. So was it an internal thing that you were going through of feeling like you had to prove yourself more? Or were you hearing signals from the outside saying, no, no, honey, you stay there. You're not ready yet.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

I think it's both. I think it's a mixture of both. Uh my well, now my my background is in Latin American. So also the the culture aspect that came with that. Not to say that uh culturally we just always kept down, but I think there was uh some cultural norms that when coming to the US also played that part, you know, both from the heritage aspect. Uh internally, I battled with a lot of the that imposter syndrome also because of my background, my experiences. Um, I battled a very well, it was the time in terminal diagnosis of heart disease. So I wasn't necessarily exposed to a lot, which was good and bad. I didn't have like constant exposure to like all these things I was, and I really didn't even know who I was though. So it was almost like a blank slate when I went in there. But then there's also, you know, we we learn from the cues from the outside, and and there were a lot of people in in the in around the table that were not necessarily sharing my experiences that did not necessarily even look into the other part, uh you know, as a woman or taking into account the different things that we do face. I I think I ran more into that as I had my own children. Things that you know I'm trying to make sure that everybody's fed, everybody's safe. Uh, all of these other parts where somebody can just go home and eat dinner. I had to make sure that there was dinner on the table and be able to schedule everything there. So I think in in a sense, um there there were, you know, there's certain certain signals, there's certainly regular schedules. And I as a mom, I think it really felt more than before because before I was just, you know, doing my thing, it didn't matter. Um, but when you have other little ones depending on you, it that it wasn't just about getting the task done at work or making sure that we had their marketing campaign going out on time, but making sure that my kid was not left at school for three hours with no ride home.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Yeah. Oh boy, you really summed it up. When you said others would be able to just go home to dinner, I had to make sure that the dinner was there at home because I see a lot of women posting on LinkedIn saying, you know, I know why these men have reached these heights because they have a wife at home to take care of things. So they're they're balancing work in life because they have someone else that they can delegate or who's just stepping up to take care of those things. And the mom often doesn't delegate and feels that responsibility or has to do it herself because nobody else will. I want to know a little more about your background and where you came from. Where did you grow up and how did that influence the person that you became?

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Sure. So I was born in Peru. I grew up. I said grew up, but not really, was lived 10 years in Venezuela because I've been here in the US for about 37. Um, but from Venezuela, always lived in Georgia. Uh came straight over here. Again, it was due to a uh I had experienced two heart attacks by the age of 10. So when we came to the US, um, yeah, um, I had less than six months to live, and my parents really came here looking for a cure. I would say my main advocate was my mom, is the one that was the fighter in the family, you know, just looking for every which way. But I would say my grandmother was the one that really sustained me and provided that anchor throughout the entire um entire time. It was a very painful disease, very agonizing. Um, uncertainty surrounded me the entire time. Um it was, I say many times when I started that uncertainty was my best friend. Um, it's where I had to learn to live, I had to learn to breathe. And if it wasn't for honestly the strong woman in my life, that I really learned the not only the value of life, but um learning to trust in a time where really trust wasn't there because they didn't know what to expect. And uncertainty does that. So uh, real quick, for five years when I came to the US, I basically lived in the hospital, uh CCU cardiac care unit. Um, and it was there was no cure in sight. Um, that's where I learned a lot of my advocacy because I saw the advocacy from both not only my family but also from the per the medical personnel. I I learned tenacity, uh, even with the language barrier, how it impacted me coming from a different country, not really speaking the language. Um, there were a lot of things I didn't know how to say, but I learned the language of love because of what they would do for me. So that became a very strong foundation in in the work that I did. And eventually, what when I was 14, there was an opportunity while I was in the heart transplant list to perform a never-been done high-risk cardiac surgery, which is called a heart ablation. Um, they didn't know the impact of it until 20 years later when the children's uh hospital called me to do a documentary on it because they had 3,000 other children had been saved by the same surgery. So that was kind of like uh how the a lot of things came together. I think for me, uh growing up, there was all this this background voice, like all the things that I missed at the same time, all the things I got to experience. It was this constant tug and pull. So I would say going into places, especially unfamiliar places, there was these basically the story, my perspective was a bit different. Uh, always wanting to learn, wanting to uh experience the world. In a sense, it was a new world for me completely uh as a teenager. Uh, but really having those both of the the anchors, you know, the love, because there was no uh at the time, there was no cure, there was no pathway. And then also the processes, the systems, the and the tenacity in light of failure, which my heart failed, a lot a lot of open heart failed, heart cat failed, a lot of the interventions or where the solutions failed. Yet seeing the excellence of the teams of wanting to innovate at a time where uncertainty was there and failure was a track record for trying to find a cure.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Wow, that's so traumatic and you know, unusual. I mean, what you went through at such a young age is uh so atypical from you know, so many people's experiences, like you said, that had, you know, normal things that they went through in high school and junior high. And I wonder if after you came out of that, you felt a pressure to make something of your life. I've read of people that were saved when others weren't, and they felt like, well, there must be a reason, and now I have to prove that I was worthy of having this life that all these people put all this effort into to save. And how did that, if you had that pressure, how did that influence what you did, you know, in education and in career?

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Oh my gosh, 100%. It was uh um, there was so many a part of my story. Like I said, there were so many points of not just the medical personnel, but the people that came alongside my family that provided food, you know, from the volunteers that would show up and uh play games with me in at times when my parents couldn't come and visit me. My mom was pregnant with my brother, so she couldn't go into the CCU, my little siblings. So there was a whole lot of other places that when let's say I got to a point where normal, right? I mean, like now I had the surgery, had you know, not passing out in the middle of the day and not turning blue, you know. But then I there was this even that I would say a couple of years where normal actually was bothersome to me. I didn't know how to be normal, I didn't know how to get the signals like no, you know, like not to be freaking out about my heart because my heart's actually beating right, it's not irregular, it doesn't, it's not beating too fast. So um I think it was understanding one it in being now learning what normal really was, what would what being well uh meant. And I think that that's so much even later on, you know, when you're done with that traumatic event or traumatic event is over, or like you know, like that hustle, whatever that project was done, uh, even the time it takes to regulate, to be okay with being well, understanding what being well is, and in that period of being well is all those other questions that you start saying, Well, you know, what's the meaning of my life? Well, what is the purpose? You know, wanting to get back. I didn't know. Um, there were times where I was too high of a liability for school, so I didn't even know quite my role in the school. Uh, and I wanted to do something because I had received so much, so I went back to the place I knew, and that was the hospital. So at the age of 17, I started volunteering. I volunteered a lot. Um, that was because it was all it was like my home. But now to be able to get back, I served a lot with the cancer patients. Um, I served a lot with people that were had to be there just like me for very long periods of time. Um, and that opened the door for service, it opened the door for leading actually in my high school. I was president of the Interact Club for the for the area, which was a service community private Rotary Junior. Um, and from that is when I started learning that what leadership was because I didn't, I had never not put it in my head, like, you know, okay, I thought leader was, you know, hey, we who we see on TV, uh, teachers, or who will have that position, until there was this one time when I was in a conference because of the Interact Club that said, you know, well, leadership is service. And I'm like, uh, what I serve and I be a leader, so that really changed for me. Um, even in the wanting the the whole impact of wanting to get back, not knowing my place in the world and service to really help me guide me and set me up in a purpose of leadership and serving leaders is just what I did today.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

And so when you decided this was the direction for you, what did you find that was the best way for you to pursue it? Did you get a college degree? Was that important? Was that something your family pushed or said, you know, no, if you're working, just go for it and keep progressing?

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Um, no, college was a big deal. But here's the deal, right? Um, there was a lot of times where I was not able to go to school in when I was in the hospital, I mean, I was hospitalized. Um, and very well-meaning people, I mean, the medical community would tell me, like, hey, don't worry about it, you know, just breathe because I mean I'm not breathing, I can't do anything else. And then again, my family, my mom was, you know, she has her MBA, she's a chemical engineer. So I had that as an example of uh, especially her being in her class. She was one of the few ones back in the 70s in Peru to even graduate with that level of uh education. She was one of the first women who got to have these this different titles. So that was my example. Um, so it was very difficult for me, even in the of what I felt as my mom. I wanted to be, you know, be able to accomplish what she had. I knew education was important, and yet here I was tied to a bed. You know, I really couldn't um do those things. However, and this is how amazing, of course, I have to say that God was very much involved in the helping me through this because I was able to skip not one grade but two grades. I was able to take on AP classes um when I came out of the hospital, even. And this is at a time where I didn't have oxygen. I mean, that was a constant thing. Your heart is there to be to put you know oxygen in your blood. Um, and that was a constant thing that I did hear from the doctors is hey, you're gonna have some cognitive, some learning disabilities. It's just a constant lack of oxygen, it's gonna take a toll on the brain. Uh so the even just the thought of doing AP classes, going to the university, I went there with a full scholarship. It was very important to me. Uh, graduating from that, but not just that, and at the university is really what I got to do a lot of my leadership. I got to be president of this um of the Senate at the student government, I got to be part of the um the student, the student council, which is the board of regents. So not only just for our university, but I represent and advocate on behalf of the students for the state of Georgia. And eventually the company that I'm leading, that I was leading was an educational publishing company. So dealing with education K through 12. Um, and we went through a very disruptive time. Again, I knew disruption because of heart attacks. I knew disruption of having lived. Um, and I would say that training helped me be even anchored in a time where the industry was so greatly impacted by the rise of ebooks, digital products where the publishing industry did not know how to deal with. Again, we're talking about 2009, 2010, 2011. There was really not a business plan where I was able to, with with what I had gone through, start having those conversations that eventually led me in Washington, D.C. to be elected to the American Association of Publishers, where I'm leading the helping lead the entire content for K through 12. And later on, I was elected as chair also in DC to help the industry. So yeah, it's uh I 100% believe in transformation, 100% believe in education. Uh, and really is I I think it for me, I had to take control of my education in a very uncertain time, and it didn't look like everybody else's education. I had to basically whatever I could get here, what I could get here, what I could get here. But even that skill of adapting, that skill of navigating, it was really the skill that helped me through all those disruptions. Um, the disruptions not only in the industry, but disruptions even in how we learn. I mean, I'm part of that generation where the internet was just coming in as a way to learn. Um, where started online courses were starting to went from a perhaps this could happen to actually reality that you could take online courses. Um, and eventually what it led to developing content that was deliverable in the palm of your hands with through a phone. So uh it's been an interesting part, and uh I 100% my experience as a kid going through uh really a lot of the things in my body helped me be able to understand better, even in our organization, the systematic impact of disruption and organization and uh what is needed in leadership for to be able to both manage capital and uh recruit great teams and also uh be able to create great processes and systems so that we have sustainable processes that give to innovation.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

So it sounds like you were an early adopter as these new things started presenting themselves. You saw the opportunity in the future, you were willing to take the risk and say, well, you know, maybe this'll be a big thing and maybe it won't, but and and maybe we'll try to do this ebook and it will fail. But you were used to having the role model of people in your life saying, we're gonna try this experimental procedure because it's better than just accepting the inevitable outcome. We're not gonna accept it. And so I wonder what you would tell people who are resistant to change and not just all change, but there are a lot of people who will dip their toe in the water, who will say, okay, I see this new thing. You know, so many people are using AI now, but you hear they're not really using it as as fully as they can, and they're afraid that it's gonna take their job or affect their lives in negative ways. What do you think that you can share with people who haven't gone through the extreme trauma you had where you recognize the value of change and disruption and transformation and risk when it comes to being early adopters? Because clearly that helped to define your life and your career and your success.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah, um no, that's a really good question. Well, first of all, if you're feeling that it's because you're human. So I would say like that is completely a normal human response to change. I mean, we we don't like that. Like we like familiarity and for anything, we're constantly looking for the stability. I mean, we even have grounding exercises, right? Grounding just to help us regulate our systems. Um, so something that again, I even use the word anchor, you know, even like a person like it's anchor. So we're constantly looking for that stability. So the thought of change definitely is like, ah, don't want to. Can we have a breather for a minute? So this will be kind of interesting for you because as I'm still going through the whole disruption, um, of course, I'm I'm passionate, I look at life differently too, but I realized that that was not gonna get us through the disruption. I had to get a process and a system. So I became a uh black belt in Six Sigma, which is continuous improvement, change management. So, one of the things about change management is that you know, well, you don't know what we don't know, and that's really what causes that fear. Um, the other part as humans, so it causes us fear, is well, we want to please people naturally, we want to belong somewhere, we want to be uh a part of something greater, but it's also because we want to be accepted, we want to be connected to more. Uh, and change many times feels like it's a threat and a threat to that, right? Because we don't know how can I forecast that, you know, how can I forecast that the impact there's so many unknowns. So the thing about change management and even change is like you know, not all change maybe good change, right? And what change we can change anything. We talk, we do that all the time. We do that with habits. Uh, we do that, you know, even driving, there might be some blockade, so we start looking at something else, it might be a pain, but hey, you're still gonna the destination doesn't change. So I would say to people that are facing that one is yes, uh, when we're looking at change, there's some things that you know we do need to stop, like a habit. There's some habits that need to go, but there's some habits that we need to keep, and there's habits that we need to be very strong in. Which ones do we keep? Which ones do we take away? Well, are those habits that are helping us with our purpose? And how do we know our purpose is helping with the fulfillment? When we talk about change, we're really talking about that fulfillment out of life. There's some things that should change, right? I mean, I I know even in timing of change. Um, like I'm a mom, the way that I uh operated and went through my business when they were younger, and I had them in stair steps, they were 17 months apart, you know. So I had three diapers at one point. Here I am, yeah. Having conference meetings, having to do that, and in the middle of that, having to make sure I had the right diapers, or even worse, even like during the break of the 2020 pandemic, I remember clearly just having had a C-section with my fifth one, making sure I had her fed, change, get on camera, do a webinar, and go right back in, making sure she was okay. So, I mean, like those were things that they again, there were changes to my daily routine that need to happen that were important to happen because they were still my first part. Um, so I would say to those in in change now, it's not like that anymore. I mean, I have three of them are in college. Doesn't mean that my purpose has changed. No, I the way I express it is different. I'm still their mom, I'm still like out there, you know, looking for them. I'm um, but uh I'm coaching them, you know. I we we do life together, but it looks different. So I will say in change, there's some change that's necessary because of the time and the season that you're in. Uh, I needed to change back then because of what my kids, how they needed me, the role that I filled. I'm still in that role as mom, but the times have changed. So I will say that to people too. Look at the time, look at the season that you're in. Um, there's some change that needs to happen, and there's opportunities with that. Every time I always say that the greatest of your the greatest opportunity is also surrounded by the greatest of uncertainty. And change does bring uncertainty. And what we're looking for is not just change for the sake of change, but what's going to help build that sustainability, that resilience, so you can continue to walk in your purpose and be fulfilled with your daily life.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Beautiful. So we all know that having children takes a village, right? And so I wonder about your village. Did you have a spouse or partner throughout that whole period that you're still with? Did you have family around? Because even though you were from another country, they came here, you know, with you. Did you stay in the area where you had family? You know, how much support did you have? Were you successful enough that you not only had the resources to hire people to help, but you recognize the importance of that? Tell me about the village and the other people that contributed to you know the change that happened in your life when kids came along.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Yeah, so they were different, right? Again, there's a change that would happen here, but also the outside change. So initially in a career, there wasn't much of the online uh being able to do what we do right now, the virtual. So it required a lot, the physical going into the office, you know, unless we had Snow Magedding, like what we had here in Georgia. Usually we were there five days a week. So the for me, I always believed the first six years were crucial, um, it for character development, for a lot of habits. So I didn't have my parents that could come in all the time. When they could come, they they would. Um, I did some flex scheduling at that time. Um, I also, because again, I was in a position of leadership, made areas in my business to where people, not only me, could bring in kids or even in the after school, they had opportunities there, so I was very aware of that, what it meant for me. I also wanted to retain and keep good talent. Um, and again, people were looking at they had to have everything done because they had to go pick up their kid at 3:30 and take him on to that. So I was very cognizant of that. So having that flex schedule I knew for me made a big difference, and I wanted to offer that to my teammates and to the people that I work with, so I did have the liberty of being able to do that. Um, yes, uh, with my first four children, I mean my spouse at the time were in the business together and then went through the divorce, which was very detrimental, it was horrible. Um, but from that, I had my youngest was six, my eldest was 11, and I was 90% of the time caretaker. So having to rebuild with four children, um uh when we're talking about 90% of the time physical with me, the the kids, I it it opened up a whole other part. Let's say that the hospital did a really good job with fixing my heart because I think it would have given anybody else a heart attack, like every single day, because it was it honestly it's a lot. So I I wasn't co you know, I I got to experience a single motherhood in that sense. Um, although there's all of these other things that were there, but the amount of scheduling, I can say my sixth sigma came in really good for home. But there were times, of course, that the emotional aspect is it was the emotional toil of that whole time was very um not only it took a big chunk of of my time uh and the children, but I wanted to give it the right time. So for that, I always valued coaching, I valued mentorship, and I made sure that my kids had mentors at that time. Um, I got them with like the the YMCA, they had a mentorship program, the leadership program, the the RICE, the young RICE program. So I wanted to make sure they had always somebody to talk with. So I purposely got them in community, got them in the church where they had their family groups, so they had people there again, not where they were going through all this because it was a lot of moving parts, but they had their own uh support systems. So I made sure that I had put people in their lives that they had uh not only that were definitely wanting to love and care for them, but they also had a safe place to go to. Um, sports that was another part, and uh for anybody who's played sports, anybody who's on baseball or football, you know, you become a family. So it's great to also have that support system where you can carpool, where you can still do all of these other things, you know, make sure that you know you you're watching out for each other's kids and you're giving them that outlook that um not only of the the family, the you know, the the blood family, but really you become family with those groups of people, you're cheering for one another, you get mad at the empires together, you know, all those sort of things. Um, so I I didn't in absence of having uh, you know, say my parents or even my spouse, uh that point was the next spouse, is creating intentionality with the groups of people. Um, and they they came in at times where I had to do the the work, I had to get out there, and I did have to do less. Um, that was a decision I did make. I sat down, you know. I wasn't going out full force or what I would consider full force, I was going out full force and everything else, and that was the other part. I had to learn, hey, I need to put time where time needs to be in. Did it impact me financially? Absolutely, it impacted me financially, and I think that's also a decision that us as a woman, many times we have to make. Do we want to raise um you know, healthy citizens that are going here, or do I really need that extra money? Do I really need that extra things? And we just you adjust during that time. So I did have to make those hard decisions. We weren't gonna be able to do the things that we usually did, but I wanted to be there for them. And that meant I sat down for a bit. Um, I got remarried, and I we had one when I had my last baby. Um, from that, yeah, it's been great where we are able to tag team with that. But you know, the kids are older, um, they love their little sister and they're able to help, you know, they they they tag team, you know, they'll they'll be there to cheer her on for her own sports. So that's a way. I mean, again, the adapting, the adjusting, but I think um it many times when you don't have that village, right, is being intentional in building that village. Takes effort like anything else, yeah. Absolutely. Um, and looking at their resources again, me YMCA, definitely my my my church group looking for opportunities, um, looking even in the city, they're having um some leadership things, they have camps, but being intentional, I think one of the worst things that we are sometimes um not only as professionals moms, and so we're just so exhausted many times that we very much need community, but we're not gonna take the time to do it, and it does take time, but it makes things way easier in the long run.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

It's an investment. You put in the time to build that village and then it pays off over time, yeah, later. Yeah, like any other investment. You talked about the sacrifices and that you consciously decided it didn't just happen. You said, I'm going to take a step back, I'm going to be with my kids 90% of the time, and I'm going to have some things I can't afford that maybe we used to. And I did some of that as well. You know, a lot of the years when my kids were growing up, our vacations were camping, you know. They weren't, you know, flying on a plane, going to other states, you know, going to Disney World. They were like, you know, going to a local forest preserve or a few hours away, you know, camping in the woods. And so I wonder what were some of those sacrifices and did it change over time? Because when my kids were little, they didn't care about hand-me-down clothes and camping. But then by the time they're in high school, yeah, they didn't want to bring their friends around. My friends have a bigger house than we do, and I'm embarrassed. And how come we don't have this and we don't have that? And so, how did you deal with it? What were the sacrifices? And and did the priority change as they got older?

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Oh, absolutely, all of the above. Um, mommy guilt was a big one, you know. Uh I think that mommy guilt initially, when they're little, is the time. Uh, because like, oh, you know, there's so many firsts, uh, you know, when they're little. Uh, and then later on is all of these experiences that you want to give that the birthday parties, right? Like the the the bigger, the the Christmases, the like you said, the vacations. Um, so I mean, there's one thing is a desire, the other part is the ability, and also well, my mental and and just help. So I something had to give, and it's okay. Uh some of those sacrifices, again, I for example, I didn't speak. I was starting to speak, I didn't because I also realized um when you're a speaker, it you give out so much of yourself. I mean, it's your story, it's all of that part, and then it's about the audience. So for me, that was a big part. Um, I know it's a big part of my purpose in the speaking, in the training, um, in the writing, but I didn't want to transfer any of those feelings in the exhaustion over to my audience. So it was both for my kids, but also for the people that I was serving, um, that I did sit down. Uh, so I wasn't necessarily I there was a part of me because I love doing that so much that wasn't getting that fulfillment. And I had to find uh easily we can get into that burnout because then everything feels like a burden, right? Because you're not getting you're not doing the things that you know this is what I've been called to do, this is where I get fulfilled. So that was a very hard thing for me. Yet I knew it was the right decision. Um, and I had to find other ways that then I also found fulfillment. I think in that point I embraced more um my own motherhood. Um, because in in the hustle and all the other parts, it's easy to like, hey, this is what I do, this is what we do, like this the schedule, the party, trying to make everything work, but really embracing the beauty of the time of being a mom. Um, and that meant that yes, we're not going to Disney World like we did, or or like Mexico or Cancun, but I was being more intentional and finding those little times where we did make the backyard, uh, the curiosity, or we did have the pool, or you know what? Can they have a friend over? Yes, you can have a friend over, you know, I'm being open to to friendships. Um as they grew, of course, you know, in teenagers, absolutely. What you said is it comes in, especially with the girls. I have my my second ones as a girl. My other my boys were okay, like they're like, ah, okay, you know, then they really wanted to be with their friends, they want to have bikes, you know, all of that. So I think as they grow, not only isn't the things, but then also with a second, they don't want me around as much. So then also having to deal with that. So, like, you know, it's like first of all, not having enough time to give them all, and then with a second, I rearrange my time and wait, they don't want to be with me as much now. Like, I have to share them with their friends. So I think it was also that part is um, again, just like I did for my audience in sitting down because I wanted what was best for them. It's also being very cognizant, being very sensitive to my kids and where they were in their own personal development and what they needed at the time. Uh, although I wanted to be like this, you know, for everything, it really I needed to let them uh explore and be more. So, how could I still make that work? And it was a transition. I would say my hardest transition was graduating from high school. I was not ready for that at all. I thought it was gonna be easy, it was not, and then having the other ones coming right up from my first one. Um, I think every time you you you adjust, you look, you reset priorities, and that's healthy. It is a healthy thing, it's is it's personal development. That's my my background in psychology. So, one of my classes that I love was that the human development cycle, you know, all the different parts. Um, I do a lot with human behavior. So, one of the things I did do with my children uh where I invested was disc. I utilized the disc, the human behavior communication, especially when the pandemic hit and everybody had to be indoors. I knew each one of my kids learned different. I didn't know exactly how to cater to them, so I used an assessment that helped me to better cater to them. If they needed to be fidgety and be touching and all this stuff, let them be, you know, and still meet the standards. So um I used tools as well to help me with what I didn't know. I just didn't know what I didn't know. Um, so I did that, but um financially it was having those conversations. One thing I did do was always having weekly meetings. That's something I started with them every Sunday. They knew Sunday at 6 p.m. You're gonna be sitting. Yeah, it can go as fast as you want, or they can be long as you want. So uh, you know, I have my point, so you know, you want to talk about it here, we will. We had our calendar that way they knew, but it's something I did do it with them every single week. So uh sometimes they dread it, sometimes they ask me, Mom, when are we having our family meeting? I say, okay, well, you have something to talk about, we'll talk about it then. But that really helped me um during that time, and we will discuss things like hey, we we can't go to the Andretti, we don't have the money, or we really can't even buy those certain things, and it's hard, it's hard to say we cannot buy those things, but then again, I think at the same time making the sacrifice to buy those things, I don't think at the end of the day they wanted a mom that was not gonna be able to be there for them because I was not well, not healthy, and not fully present. And I believe in the long run, especially looking at them now that they're older, they're able to have those memories with me. Um, and not that exhausted that just trying to one more thing. And at the end of the day, we did house cleaning and a lot of those things that I so much wanted and got for them ended up donated or in the trash because that's what happens with things. It doesn't happen with memories.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Yeah, I think for me facing the empty nest was easier because I knew, you know, I gave the time to my kids and my family that I wanted. I you know, and it's different for everyone completely, you know. For some moms, you know, they want to be there and not, you know, have a career, put it on hold. For others, they want to be full-time. And, you know, and and many do kind of like you you and I did, which is a step back part-time. You know, I kind of I had a career as a television reporter. Instead of five days a week, I went two days a week. And then I eventually, when I needed a little more money, I started a side hustle I could do when they were sleeping, that I could do when I wouldn't be with them anyways, when they were in school. And so that made it easier, you know, when they transitioned. I was like, hey, I I had the motherhood journey I wanted, but I still needed that child care when they were younger to be able to do some of the things. And I wonder what, you know, you said most of the time, 90% of the time, they were with you. You were able to bring them, you arranged your own job where people could have their kids leave early, bring them. But when that 10% or whatever it was, when you couldn't be with them, you know, what kind of childcare did you have? Did you use daycares or sitters or nannies? And how easy or hard was that to manage that?

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Oh, yeah. Okay, so let me clarify on the 90% meaning like that. I was responsible for 90% of their physical, you know, what they were care. Uh-huh. And that was a combination of all those things. But yeah, definitely I had um, well, for example, with in with the younger ones, once they were of age, ASP in elementary school, the after school care. And I did have a nanny that would come in um initially 10 hours. Well, when they were younger, I had probably about 20-25 hours of the week. Um, because there were stair steps, right? So then the oldest one may be in kindergarten, but then I had a four-year-old and a three-year-old that would still need to be driven to um preschool, and then the two-year-old. So there were those hours in between, um, which again can be that exhausting, right? Because you're leaving early, so you start a day early, and then you have somebody doing all the drive, but then you needed somebody to stay here in this gap. So you couldn't just tell them to go home necessarily because you need them for that certain amount, and that was it probably the hard part for me because uh maybe I really needed them like four hours the driving there, driving back, but then this gap like what did we do there? So sometimes uh what I did do was two part-time, you know, when I gave two 15-hour blocks. Um, sometimes when as they were getting older, two 10 hours, somebody had 10 hours in the morning, the other person had 10 hours. Um, I'm sorry, 10 hours in the week, and spread two hours in the morning, and the other one had two hours uh spread in the afternoon. Um, summertime became easier because it was not all those those those driving, but then there was more time when the kids needed to be home when they weren't in school, so um they filling in those gaps, that's where I would look at like looking at well, what am I doing at work? What I need to be, uh you know, what did the schedule look like? So, usually between I would say when they were younger, as they were from and again, because I have five, the the the four, the first four, it was a constant balance about that 20 to 25 hours as they were moving along. When the rise of the virtual and the pandemic came in, um, although we didn't need all the driving, as I had my newborn and the baby, there were certain times I knew I had to be on camera. So having that time, the preparation before and making sure there was no sounds anywhere. Uh, so for that, I also took about 15-20 hours. So I would say off and on throughout the years, it wasn't a consistent, like you know, like the last 15 years, but there were seasons definitely where I had child care. I utilized the ASP as well. Um, and then even the driving where hey, if they went to go into the to a game uh or a practice is having that driver, and that's really what it came the the hard part was having somebody there, then to have a friend, or I'm coming in, I'm gonna meet them at the at the field. Um, so that's how those those timings came into play. So basically, um my schedule arrangement parts were were coming in quite quite savvy, but I would say the hardest part in all that were the rides because I wanted them all to have the opportunity of what they wanted. Uh so uh that meant sometimes of being well, a lot of Saturdays, whole day baseball games, um Fridays, uh football games. Now the boys were wrestling, and of course, once they were able to drive, that got way easier, but still I have my five-year-old, so that you know, maybe maybe once or twice a month, so we can actually have date night. That's good because I also don't want all the kids to feel like hey, they have to take care of the baby. But uh uh it's uh I will say care, also reliable care, was a constant accessibility to that, that I knew where I could get accessible care for when I needed them, when um many times you can't count on parents or family. I I did need to have that constant, I knew I could get care from this place for the times I needed.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

Where did you find it? Where did you go to try to find and did you feel like you had, you know, that you had one person that was steady with you for years, or did you feel like, oh gosh, I have to find someone new again, you know?

SPEAKER_00 43:18

So I did have some from care.com. Um that that was one of the places where more of that consistent, especially like some of the last minute ones were available. Um, I had well from church, there was always somebody there that uh who had either they were in transitioning of a job that were looking at uh serving, or also a teenager that could help some of those couple of hours. Um I had I what ended up happening a lot with my childcare was they were also in the transition. I could, like I said, that gap, then there were things that they could do for me for my business. Again, I'm an entrepreneur. So then I would kind of do the children childcare part. And then like, hey, can we have some of these tasks?

SPEAKER_01 44:06

Oh, interesting. So you had some of your nannies who did like some admin work for you too. Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

And we separated them. Uh because that was their background. So it's like, okay, so while they're looking for something, or they made it, um, I had a couple and I've gone through through a few, through a few nannies for, I mean, I guess it's been like a 15-year block, right? Over over 15 years. Um, where they were able to like they had they were looking for something, or they wanted to not work as much because now their own kids um were in school, but they want to be there for their kids in the afternoon. So, like, hey, my my my need is in the morning, making sure they all get into work. Can you give me also three hours where this administrative stuff is being taken care of while I'm driving all over the place doing this stuff? So that's how we did it. And then I had my second one that would come in and basically uh pick them up and take them to the places that they were going. So they came as referrals. Um, we did do um we would do ads at times. I had a couple of with ads, I would say with Indeed. Uh we did that. Um, and I had a pretty good because I had a business, I pretty much knew what the questions, you know, doing the background checks, um, some of the make sure they had the CPR certification, um, though those things. And what was the the background? Um, some some of the referrals again. A lot of the people that I had already known. The care ones from care.com already can pre-bed it. So that was one of the the things that um I relied on them, especially for the short turnaround ones where it wasn't like I'm gonna need them for like months, but more like a week or a season. I knew I was gonna be traveling a lot.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

So, yeah, it's a lot of coordinating, and you had experience from being a business owner and and doing that. You know, for others, sometimes it's hard to put on that recruiting hat when it's not something that they've normally done, you know. And I always say every family is like a puzzle, and it's like finding the puzzle piece that fits what you're looking for perfectly. You know, you experienced so much through your career, starting with everything you went through as a child and and then knowing what your purpose was and and shifting that as you became a mom and then sort of stepping back into it now that your kids are a little older. I wonder if there's a time that you could go back knowing then what you know now. What's one thing you would change? Take it easy. Take it easier. Um, what season would you have taken it more easy when they were younger? Okay. I think but you did kind of do that.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

I did do it, but I wasn't enjoying it. I didn't I didn't let go of the constant pressure. So with them during the times that mattered, but I was not releasing myself to rest because I still wanted to keep things going. So basically, I was getting no sleep during that time until it caught up with me, until my health started getting out of whack completely. Um, weight and the blood pressure, uh, all this stuff, just constant being tired. Uh, so I I was still trying to do it all. It took me a bit. I would say probably by my third one where, you know, uh where I wasn't like, hey, it's not business as usual, it's not you you can't, and and it's okay. Um, I would say probably with my fifth one is the one I've been able to really enjoy the most. And I feel at times I wish I would have taken the same approach with my younger ones. Although it's chaotic, it's different. They were so close, like I said, three in diapers. Uh, every time I left at the house, I felt like I was moving out because of all the gear. Bringing an army of supplies with you, yeah. All the all the gear, everything that came along with that because um, just uh the snacks, the the drinks, the change of clothes. Uh, I mean, there was just a lot, a big production of forget it with during sports. Um, but I would say I would have liked to have taken it easier in the sense of really taking the joy of that and releasing myself from all of this pressure that really I put on myself. Um, at the end of the day, everything turned out okay, you know, like it really did. Uh it wasn't like a serious as a heart attack like I had before, you know. So it wasn't like that. It wasn't detrimental if somebody forgot a sock or a shoe, or we didn't have the, you know, all of those things. But at that time, it seemed like, oh my gosh, it was the end of the world. How could this be happening? So, if anything, um, I realized I was like that because of all the internal pressure that was having it to where I was really running like a little army, but I should have enjoyed more the little crew that I had.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

Well, thanks for sharing that and everything that you said today that can inspire others to take a look at you know their own lives and maybe make adjustments based on some of your learnings. If you enjoyed today's story, remember to share it with a friend, leave a review, and subscribe to meet our next amazing guest. If you or anyone you know is struggling to find the right childcare, just submit your criteria and then watch a video interview with the ideal nanny who fits your family at momsub.com. That's momsub like a substitute mom. Our mission is for you to get the help you need so you can discover what you want in life, pursue it with intensity, and fulfill your dream, reducing your stress, your guilt, and your self-criticism, and increasing your calm, your confidence, and your clarity along the way. Remember, your career, your choices, and your success are yours to define. So keep pushing boundaries and spreading your love and encouragement to other women who need it.